If The Loyalists Became Traitors (Project)

[Barret]

Some initial thoughts after reading.

 

Without the Codex Astartes, I don't know if there would be Chapters as we know them. The "defenders of the Imperium" would be very different than under the real Heresy, so perhaps they wouldn't want to be split up. The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers are, as you've said, all very indirect Legions, and I doubt they'd be split up so easily. If anything, the Legions might be the biggest force in the Imperium, replacing the Ecclessiarchy as the dominant authority, especially given the nature of the AL and WB.

 

I don't know if I like the Iron Hands/Tzeentchian thing. I mean, it's very obvious to make them into a Legion of Obliterators, but I think they'd be more likely to be Khornate or Undivided. I don't really seem them falling to the influence of the God of Magic. Unrelenting, their machines and bionics augmented by the Chaos Gods and daemonic energies, they might be a blend of the Black Legion and traitor Word Bearers, seeking to purge the galaxy of weak mortal flesh, and replace it with a hellish dimension of blood-fueled daemon engines.

 

What if, instead of Luther taking the role of Garro, it was the Lion? Luther turns most of the Legion against the Lion, and El'Johnson manages to escape with the remaining Loyalists (after gravely wounding Luther) to warn of the impending revolt. Luther and the Dark Angels, meanwhile, give praises to Tzeentch and are scattered throughout space and time to work the Changer's inscrutable plans and the Dark Angels are a plague throughout the Imperium, the Enemy Within. After the Heresy, the Lion and his few loyalists found the Inquisition, a much darker and more ruthless organization led by a small "Chapter" of Marines. It is rumoured that the Lion himself still lives somewhere in the depths of the Inquisitorial Palace of Truth on Terra.

 

The Sons of Horus, not as zealous as the Word Bearers, or cunning as the Alpha Legion or terrifying as the Night Lords, are the backbone of the Imperial military machine. Horus extended the Imperial Army, mingling it with his Legion to spread fighting forces across the galaxy. The Imperial Guard does not exist. Instead, armies of mortal men are commanded and led by Black Legionnaires who number in the tens or even hundreds of thousands.

[Commissar Molotov]

Thanks for the response, Barret. Whilst the Codex Astartes in its truest form might not have been written without Roboute Guilliman, I still think there might've been calls to curb the power of the Legions after the sheer destruction of the Heresy. And even if only because it might be cool to look at aspects of the Legions through a different lens.

 

Obviously the problem with any group project is that we're going to find it difficult to reach a consensus - we all have our theories, we all hate to see our pet characters doing things that we're convinced they wouldn't do. But I think that given that in our universe, Luther is reviled as the traitor, it might be neat if he's actually a hero - by all rights he should be the petty, jealous one, and yet he does the right thing and perhaps helps to save the Galaxy. I also like that it neatly mirrors the Flight of the Eisenstein.

 

With regards to the Iron Hands - I liked the idea of taking "The Flesh is weak" to its endpoint. The techno-virus seemed a nice parallel of our Thousand Sons - trapped in their armour, becoming one with their armour. I do like your ideas of daemonic bionics (try saying that too many times fast!) and daemon-engines, akin to the Defiler. I think both could be combined - unlike the Thousand Sons, the Iron Hands infected by the techno-virus wouldn't be mindless automatons. I think they'd be quite a cruel legion, suffering horrendous pain from the techno-virus. I honestly can't see them being Khornate in their current guise. Undivided, possibly, but it seems that they've got a huge Tzeentchian influence. Whilst I realise that Tzeentch has perhaps had more of an active role in this universe (Raven Guard and Iron Hands) that's almost fitting - perhaps this whole alternate universe has sprung up because it's a Tzeentchian vision/dream/something.

 

I do like the idea that the Inquisition in this Alternate universe is led by the Marines, with human operatives, rather than the other way around, though... that's something that I find interesting.

 

W/regards to the Sons of Horus, the current suggestion is that they become the Black Guard after the death of Horus - though that could potentially change. I can see the four members of the Mournival making four very different Chapters.

[Captain Kael]

W/regards to the Sons of Horus, the current suggestion is that they become the Black Guard after the death of Horus - though that could potentially change. I can see the four members of the Mournival making four very different Chapters.

 

Thats actually a cool thought. With Abaddon's chapter being all rash, arrogant, and zealous. I can see them as close combat specialists. With Abaddon so wounded and hurt by his belived primarchs death, he sets his chapter on an eternal crusade, hunting down the Chaos scum. Kind of like the Black Templars.

 

Aximand's chapter would be a chapter of thinkers I suppose. With the marines being calm, collective, and resolute. I can see them as current day Imperial Fists. Punishing themselves for not being able to save their primarch. And being very stubborn.

 

Torgaddon's chapter would be full of extremely skilled jokers :P. I think they would be like the current day Ultramarines character traits. Like he goes by the book. He follows standard army procedures and such. Other than that, I can't really think of anything for him.

 

Loken's Chapter would be full of the righteous, good hearted, loyal to the Emperor marines. I can see him hurt from the primarch's death, but is still very glad the Emperor is alive. Come to think of it, Loken' marines may be the guys who guy by the book. What do you think?

 

Of course the Mournival would stay together. Kind of like the Dark Angels, where the chapter masters meet. All Sons of Horus' decendent chapter's would answer to the Mournival. So in a way the Mournival controls the other succesor chapters.

 

Captain Kael

[Commissar Molotov]

Of course...

 

Problem is that we can't use "Of course..." in this discussion - the Mournival certainly didn't stay together in our universe! :tu:

[Captain Kael]

Of course...

 

Problem is that we can't use "Of course..." in this discussion - the Mournival certainly didn't stay together in our universe! ;)

 

Well this is only a what if thread so it is full of assumptions. And we are talking about a loyal Sons of Horus legion in this scenario, and in that scenario the Mournival can exist. It might not have in the GW official version, but if the HH was reveresed, and the traitor legions switched places with the loyal legions, than anything can happen and one can only speculate. The phrase "Of course" may have been incorrect but this is what I would imagine would happen if the legions switched sides.

 

Besides its just for fun. I just thought that would have been a cool idea. ;)

 

Captain Kael :P

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, you raise a cogent point. This thread exists to allow anyone to speculate and put forth their ideas, so what I've done is to move 'my' ideas into this project thread.

 

What I'd like is eventually if we could establish a project called "Myriad Universes" or something similar, where we can put up a number of different Alternate-Universe scenarios in the Librarium. :)

[Ensis Ferrae]

i personally like Barret's idea that the Codex was never written, and that the marines are the more dominant force of the imperium, rather than the Ecclesiarchy... Actually, the Ecclesiarchy could be entirely replaced with the Word Bearers, since even pre-heresy, they were zealous preacher types.

 

though i really can't see them NOT coming out with some document(s) that outline the "rules" for being marines, that would act as the Codex does in the "real" 40k universe... perhaps the "Book of Lorgar" ???

perhaps the legions were given an option of splitting down to the smaller chapters, and some did this willingly, but through subversiveness, they merely bolstered the size of the force of marines they had available (as in, the Mournival go out and create 4 separate chapters, but they quite regularly fight together, and have in fact nearly doubled the number of troops in the legion as a whole?)

[c-wrex]

Maybe instead of the legions totally splitting up you have them breaking into smaller armies maybe four to ten thousand marines strong and assigned a larger section of imperial space to oversee and protect. Additionally, the mini legions wouldn't be deployed all together, they would all be interspersed between the other legions marines, so you wouldn't have an entire sector of space with nothing but Night Lords patrolling it, for example.

[Demon-Man]

I think in case of cult-legions there should still be only 4 of them in Bizarro-40K, just to have some balance and to have each of them function as example cult-army.

 

My votes are still:

Khorne - Blood Angels (It just soo obvious and they could be a different, more controlled and less berzerky type of Khornate cultists. Many vote for Space Wolves but I think that would be too one-dimensional and I don't see Russ as someone who'd become so easily the willing pet of a god).

 

Slaanesh - Imperial Fists (The whole self-scourging could have a far deeper meaning, furthermore they got a similar being-perfect-complex like Fulgrim)

 

Nurgle - Salamanders (Because they share many aspects with the Death Guard....and they are green).

 

Tzeentch - Raven Guard or White Scars (The Iron Hands are too techno-loving and logical to become magicians. I see Irond Hands rather joining forces with the Dark Mechanicus and becoming a Legion undivided).