Serious followers of the Chaos Gods

[DeathsHead]

To the OP.

 

There's a thread over in the Nurgle sub-forums that seems relevant to this discussion. You might want to check that out, but to summarize it, there are some of us who prefer to disregard the bulk of the "Nurgle-as-perversely-humorous" concept which seems to remain very popular these days. While I can understand the perspective of those who get really into that particular way of viewing Nurgle, I prefer something darker and less absurd, generally speaking.

 

From my point of view, Nurgle and his various incarnations and forces should embody a feeling of abysmally heavy, unstoppable despair. I imagine Plague Marines as beings so consumed with despair and suffering that their ego has been utterly shattered, leaving only the consciousness of death and the need to inflict that consciousness on everything else. They are utterly enslaved to the will of the Chaos Power they serve. I imagine Daemons of Nurgle being similarly agonized, or at least the personification of spiritual agony - an agony so deep and all-pervasive that the possibility of something like laughter is completely extinguished, leaving nothing but a silent, open-mawed hatred without any direction or purpose besides its own contagion.

 

As I mentioned in the thread over in the Nurgle forums, there's a picture hanging around in a book somewhere (Liber Chaotica or one of the earlier edition Chaos books, perhaps) of a place which must exist somewhere in the Realms of Chaos. It is a vast, cavernous black space which hold an enormous, faceless body in a state of extreme decay. There are many stone bridges throughout this space which lead into open wounds on the thing's body, allowing an endless procession of damned souls to march inside. This picture completely captures what I think of as the essence of Nurgle - a faceless bitterness that seeks to draw everything into its own defiled condition.

 

Nurgle should express a hatred that is as cold and black as the void, and heavy as the whole sum of human grief. The true color of Nurgle, when understood in this manner, is not green, or brown, or piss-yellow, but an unbroken blackness that is more solid and potent than the mere absence of light.

 

What does this mean in terms of building a characterful army? Almost anything. I think that to really break the 'cliches' the original poster refers to isn't necessarily to develope a unique, novel style, but to really capture the original (in the sense of returning to origins meaning of the word) spirit of its patron Daemon, as opposed to merely capturing the most immediately understood, cosmetically simple and superficial element, i.e "NURGLE IS GREEN BOOGERS AND FLABBY INTESTINAL EXPOSURE, HAND ME THAT PACKAGE OF GREEN STUFF LOL!"

[sexiest_hero]

I disagree with the above comment of nurgle, I find it far more frighting thing about nurgle isn't the grim-faced body collector, but the crazed lunatic that's giggling at the carnage and death around him, The minions of Nurgle like decay, they love doing thier work, it's what they were created for. The good thing is there is room for both trains of thought.

 

Oh and My chaos lord is not "OMG green-stuff guts, he's a gaunt, fevered soul, who can't tell the difference between reality and his own fever-induced nightmares. And yes Nugle gets a great kick out of his torment.

[Godspear]

The fluff surrounding my World Eaters is far from the run of the mill frothing maniac. The blood and lunacy are symptoms of Khorne's worship, just as plagues are symptoms of Nurgle's worship. Khorne is a god of hate, anger, and martial prowess, and for that reason, my Khornates involve just as much shooty as they do CC. Granted, my eight, eight man berzerker squads might beg to differ, but I often field brass painted, blood spattered predators as well as marines with bolters. I even have a unit of havocs that take to the field from time to time. These aren't cheesy, Khorne loves all machines of war, a unit bristling with heavy weapons would suit him just fine. The point is, every tool of death has its place in Khorne's brass plated heart, and as such a strictly regimented force bent only on the efficiency of war is right up his alley. Every explosion is a hymn to Khorne, every drop of blood, an offering. The fires of war are his cathedrals and the burning dead are his penitent worshipers, ushered to the Skull Throne by the priests of his service, the World Eaters. They have a very monastic, Word Bearers approach to Khorne's worship, they seek out war like any other Khornate group, but for them its about bringing faith to those without it, and they shoulder this task with the fanaticism and luncacy inherent in Khorne's worship.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I disagree with the above comment of nurgle, I find it far more frighting thing about nurgle isn't the grim-faced body collector, but the crazed lunatic that's giggling at the carnage and death around him, The minions of Nurgle like decay, they love doing thier work, it's what they were created for. The good thing is there is room for both trains of thought.

 

I don't see anything in his post being "grim faced body collector". His description focuses more on the despair aspects, its not grim reaper style.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, that picture actually does have a face, it's looking upwards, and resembles the faces of the then-current Great Unclean Ones. And I tend to think of Nurgle as not only mirth as actual comedy in what they see/find, but that they laugh because they choose not to cry. Staunch defiance of the situation, unwilling to let the situation get the best of them, but unwilling to try to get out of it, lest they screw up and make things worse.

That's the tragedy of Nurgle for me, he stops your fall from grace, but keeps your current torments eternally. You won't get any more sick, you won't get any more fat, or whatever made you turn to Nurgle, but you'll never get better. You're frozen in time, because, to quote one of the many 40k quotes, "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment," so you embrace your current lowliness, never to let it go, because you were too scared of things getting worse.

 

So yes, I don't like the image of Nurgle as an absolute clown, but the image of him as an even more dilapidated "Dark Knight"-style Joker is very fitting. He laughs because to cry is to lose all faith whatsever. To laugh is to continue the charade of life. To cry is to invite oblivion.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

Just saw that one, and could not let it uncommented. Malal was created for the Warhammer Fantasy RPG by one of the artists to be used as the patron god for one of his characters. Since it was not GW's own IP they did not include him in many other WHFRPG material. There has never been any official material on Malal for Warhammer 40K. The Sons of Malice and the Dreadaxe in the last Codex Chaos were nods in that direction, sort of a homage to old school GW lore, but there really never was a Malal in WH40K.

 

true to a point but then as far as chaos gods and daemons go fantasy and 40k are interchangeable because its the basically all the same fluff, same names, same units

 

but at least its nice to fins another person who knows of Malal, usually I mention his name and people go "who?"

[the jeske]

The fluff surrounding my World Eaters

WE are mad man not because of the khorn worship [not that it doesnt help ] , but because of the special implantation they all went through . Each WE was implanted with a gizzmo mirroring the one their primarch had . And it does drive them mad and uncontrolable most of the times . + the new dex still says [not my words but thorpes] that khorn is still the god of mindless slaughter . The old RT fluff may have been cool , but right now all khornis are mad man .

true to a point but then as far as chaos gods and daemons go fantasy and 40k are interchangeable because its the basically all the same fluff, same names, same units

 

but at least its nice to fins another person who knows of Malal, usually I mention his name and people go "who?"

this is not exactlly the truth untile the codex demons GW policy [the official ones am not talking about the "maybe" or "its a secret "stuff] was that w40k and WFB are two separate realms . thats why the gods from WFB were always a bit different from the ones in w40k [orgin of slanesh , the martial discipline of khorn in WFB etc].

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Lord_Caerolion, I like your interpretation of Nurgle. However, I think it sounds more like a sect of the Nurglitch faith than anything rather than the general view. I think it would be awesome to see some fluff based on this though.

[Legatus]

true to a point but then as far as chaos gods and daemons go fantasy and 40k are interchangeable because its the basically all the same fluff, same names, same units

I think it was hinted at in the realms of chaos books that the WHFB and the WH40K world are connected, perhaps that the WHFB world is simply a planet in the 40K universe. But later that has been denied. There are still winks in that direction sometimes, such as the WH40K wargear that was available during the WHFB albion campaign. But generally, the two universes are kept separate. There is an obvious connection through the similar mythology with the GW chaos gods, the ork gods or even the eldar gods, but others, such as the horned rat, are not seen in 40K.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

There is an obvious connection through the similar mythology with the GW chaos gods, the ork gods or even the eldar gods, but others, such as the horned rat, are not seen in 40K.

 

its a shame really, I would love to see skaven or lizardmen in 40k and how GW would represent them, I don't play Fantasy at all but I love the diversity

[TheDarkApostle]

true to a point but then as far as chaos gods and daemons go fantasy and 40k are interchangeable because its the basically all the same fluff, same names, same units

I think it was hinted at in the realms of chaos books that the WHFB and the WH40K world are connected, perhaps that the WHFB world is simply a planet in the 40K universe. But later that has been denied. There are still winks in that direction sometimes, such as the WH40K wargear that was available during the WHFB albion campaign. But generally, the two universes are kept separate. There is an obvious connection through the similar mythology with the GW chaos gods, the ork gods or even the eldar gods, but others, such as the horned rat, are not seen in 40K.

There was an even bigger connection back in the days where the Chaos Mortals army could take actually Chaos Space Marines with actual bolters(!).

 

But yeah, it's a shame that they've pretty much completely separated the universes as of now.

 

TDA

[Duodecimo]

I am attempting to come up with alternate colours for the Chaos Gods' servants in my army. So far, Khorne will be black, Tzeentch will be violet, and Nurgle will be sort of a dirty bone colour (bleached bone w/washes of brown & green). Any suggestions for Slaanesh?

[the jeske]

But yeah, it's a shame that they've pretty much completely separated the universes as of now.

I think the "as of now" is from around 4th or 5th WFB edition . that quite a long time .

[ant7]

I have just recently started a CSM army although I am new to CSM I have been around hte hobby for a long time. THis is an interesting topic and discussion. I for one don't like the currently held view of many of the aligned marines. Nurlge are all fat, bloated pusbags, Khorne are slobbering maniacs etc. I have modeled my marines as recently turned with no mutations. But I feel I would like to go further than just the modeling aspects.

My marines have turned because of a loss of faith in the Emperor, not so much as a god but as represented by what has been done in his name and what has been asked of them to do in his name. I see these marines as martial warriors who use chaos to aid them where they used to have the backing of the Imperium. They will summon lesser demons to do they're bidding on the battle field. They will utilize a defiler if it helps them further their goals.

I see marines as being strong-willed and resilient enough to be able to use chaos like this. They do not have to give in totally, but if they want to fine. I am not against anyone doing whatever they feel with their army. That's the great thing about chaos, converting and adjusting the list to one's own personal taste. I just happen to like the less slimey type.

I like the idea of renegades or basically spikey marines, some don't and that's fine. I try to keep teh demons and demonic stuff to a minimum in my army to represent that. Again this is just my point of view and my two cents I wanted to throw in. Have fun with chaos no matter it's form.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

Any suggestions for Slaanesh?

white?

[DuskRaider]

I, for one, am not a big fan of the same old green and bloated Death Guard. It's so overdone and cliche, it does nothing for me. I prefer mine as more slaves to Nurgle's will, as they pretty much are. For the most part, Death Guard did not want to worship Chaos, they never had the intention, and only did it as a last option. In my eyes, there are two factions of Death Guard: Those loyal to Mortarion, and those loyal to Typhus (de facto Nurgle). I model/paint my Death Guard in their Pre-Heresy colors, only excessively antiquated and rusted, to show the wear on these poor souls after 10,000 years. My Death Guard are still loyal to their Primarch, and more oft then not, will refuse to assist Typhus, Abaddon, or anyone Mortarion does not wish to, unless Nurgle directly intervenes.

[Alkana]

I, for one, am not a big fan of the same old green and bloated Death Guard. It's so overdone and cliche, it does nothing for me.

 

I agree. When I think of Nurgle, I think of Grim Reaper-ish types of figures. Tall, skeletal figures that appear from nowhere and spread plagues and death to their victims, not the bloated monstrosities that many others imagine.

 

The same theme could be used for Tzeentch's followers as well. Tzeentchian marines could be fallen soldiers risen from their graves by powerful sorcery and tasked with serving the Lord of Change for all eternity.

[the jeske]

Tall, skeletal figures that appear from nowhere and spread plagues and death to their victims

that would be the necron in w40k fluff.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Well, the Necrons don't cover the plagues bit, and an organic take on the gaunt-famine aspect would still be interesting.

[Dammeron]

Another somewhat interesting take on servants of Nurgle would be those who do not actively serve him, but are reluctantly cursed by the Dark God, and are searching throughout the Eye of Terror and the material universe for a cure to their affliction. This would also fit in very nicely with Nurgle's aspect as the embodiment of determination in the face of hopelessness.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

Another somewhat interesting take on servants of Nurgle would be those who do not actively serve him, but are reluctantly cursed by the Dark God, and are searching throughout the Eye of Terror and the material universe for a cure to their affliction. This would also fit in very nicely with Nurgle's aspect as the embodiment of determination in the face of hopelessness.

 

this is the route one of my friends plans to take, his army is not blessed by nurgle but cursed so that their wounds never heal, hes going to convert his models and they will be counts as plague marines, and their fluff I think was they were travelling the galaxy looking for artifacts that might be able to destroy a god of the warp (so far... nothing)

[the jeske]

well generally people who don not agree to serve nurgle , die sooner or later and are changed in to PB . But then again its WFB , so people may not agree . Aside for the DG fluff there isnt much info on nurgle followers in w40k .

 

 

the idea that a god would allow his followers [willing or not] do something against his will is not very fluffy . Since the the moment they are marked [and in some cases before like someone being very sick or being a mad butcher etc ] the gods know everything their followers think and do .

[Godspear]

The fluff surrounding my World Eaters

WE are mad man not because of the khorn worship [not that it doesnt help ] , but because of the special implantation they all went through . Each WE was implanted with a gizzmo mirroring the one their primarch had . And it does drive them mad and uncontrolable most of the times . + the new dex still says [not my words but thorpes] that khorn is still the god of mindless slaughter . The old RT fluff may have been cool , but right now all khornis are mad man .

 

I wasn't saying they were anything but insane. I was simply saying they were much more lucid than the "Kill, Maim, Burn!" frothing maniac idiom would imply. Any World Eater would have to be. Angron didn't spend all that time serving the Emperor as an unintelligible juggernaut, even with his aggression boosters. Even after the heresy, the World Eaters need to be coherent enough to travel from planet to planet. So, while conducting the business of battle, it is true that followers of the blood god become drunk on bloodlust, off the battle field, there's no reason why they can't behave according to strict codes of honor and stricter militaristic doctrine. In fact, the whole reason Angron betrayed the Emperor in the first place was due to the perceived lack of honor that Angron saw in the Emperor. And honor, as a virtue and therefore an ethical entity, can be defined in any manner fitting those defining it. So, a World Eater's sense of honor might be a measure of worth based on the amount of skulls collected, for example. You just can't confine them wholly to the incoherent, blood drunk maniac, as they wouldn't be able to function. They wouldn't be able to do anything and Khorne would have no use for them. They're not the death company, World Eaters are raging, bloodthirsty killers, but you need to be able to get to your victim to kill them. So, while DC are taken from battle to battle and loosed to destroy, the World Eaters have to be cognizant enough to utilize interstellar space travel to get to the next bloodbath.

[the jeske]

Even after the heresy, the World Eaters need to be coherent enough to travel from planet to planet.

yes and they were doing that untile the legion war started and the WE stoped existing as a cohorent force at all . They dont have a fleet anymore in most cases they are hired , by chaos lord [or at least thats what fluff tells us].

 

And angron went traitor because he was crazy butcher with no self control . He didnt like what emp has , done but if he had real problems with that he would have rebelled sooner . Horus just gave him a free hand to do what ever he wants .

 

And honor, as a virtue and therefore an ethical entity, can be defined in any manner fitting those defining it.

the honor and virtu thing for khorn is a WFB thing. W40k khorn is different [for example WFB khorn at some time wanted only worthy trophies , the w40k khorn doesnt care if you kill 100 marines or 100 cripples] .Just look at the dex we have now [ok I know , its a bad dex] look what it tells about khorn and his worshipers . Mad man ? yes . Crazy butchers and God of Slaughter? yes . Virtue and honor ? nope .

 

the World Eaters have to be cognizant enough to utilize interstellar space travel to get to the next bloodbath.

yeah thats the incohorent part of fluff . because normally a lord would have to keep them in stasis to stay safe . But I think the huron story gives a good insight how they are transported from battle to battle . the lords just send them more and more slaves , their own marines and in worste case let them fight against each other .