Tank shock and Fearless units

[King_Pash]

What happens to a fearless unit when it get tank shocked? Does it automatically move out of the way or what? Also, what is the minimum distance you need to tank shock a unit? Cheers buds.

[SeattleDV8]

move at least combat speed ( 6"). fearless auto pass the test

[King_Pash]

Can you move back 6" and move forward 6" then?

[njm3]

Just check P68, pretty clear.

 

Make one turn then travel a straight line a declared distance. No turns on the way or at the end.

Must be at least combat speed.

[Mordekiem]

In a related question...

 

What if I tank shocked with a fast transport vehicle and declared I was going to move 18" (Flat Out). However, after 6" I ran into a powerfist and got immobilised. Can the unit inside get out on the same turn?

 

My opponent and I decided no because I declared I was going flat even though I ended up not moving the entire distance. But were we correct?

[WarpSpawn]

I would say you played it right.

 

The ability to (dis)embark relates to the speed bracket used, not the actual distance moved. Normal vehicle movement does not appear to require any declaration of speed prior to movement. Tank shock, as you already stated, does.

[Mordekiem]

I read the rules some more and asked a few others and they actually said we did it wrong.

 

the reason. To calculate your speed you use the distance actually moved, not the distance you intended to move. So my Avengers could've gotten out and fired since the serpent had only moved 6".

[SeattleDV8]

you may not disembark (or embark) if a vehicle has, Or is going to, move flat out. Since the embarking happens before the movement I would say that the intent to move flat out over rules the number of inches really moved.and as nothing is said in the rules on your interpretation

[maniclurker]

DV8's the winner.

[Mordekiem]

you may not disembark (or embark) if a vehicle has, Or is going to, move flat out. Since the embarking happens before the movement I would say that the intent to move flat out over rules the number of inches really moved.and as nothing is said in the rules on your interpretation

But I wasn't embarking the unit I was disembarking the unit. And at the time I went to disembark the unit the transport had only moved 6" and sicne it was emobilised I was definately NOT going to be moving flat out later in the turn.

 

I otherwise agree with your interpretation if the unit was Embarking.

[nighthawks]

embarkation rules are in one section, so he may have been refering to them as a whole (getting in and out). also, tank shock (as you pointed out yourself in post #5) requires a declaration of intended speed. so you have rules out the voluntary disembarkation. if the vehicle is wrecked, you still get the compulsary disembarkation, and the rules pertinant to it...

[Mordekiem]

embarkation rules are in one section, so he may have been refering to them as a whole (getting in and out). also, tank shock (as you pointed out yourself in post #5) requires a declaration of intended speed. so you have rules out the voluntary disembarkation. if the vehicle is wrecked, you still get the compulsary disembarkation, and the rules pertinant to it...

I disagree Nighthawks. The rules say that if you are going to move flat out then you may not disembark. But your actual speed is determined by the number of inches you move, not your intended move distance. So if you declare 18" a unit may not get out at this point because the vehicle is going to be travelling flat out. But then if you only move 6" you have not gone flat out. Per pg 57 of the BRB, "A vehicle that moves up to 6" is moving at combat speed." So at this point if a unit wanted to disembark they meet all the requirements.

 

These requirements are:

1. vehicle has not moved flat out - Check, it only moved 6" so is considered to have moved at combat speed.

2. vehicle is not going to move flat out - Check, since it is immobilised it cannot move at all.

 

I don't see what is stopping the unit from disembarking at this point.

[SeattleDV8]

You are missing the point. The declaration of moving flat out stops you from disembarking ( or embarking) Before the vehicle has moved at all. It is the declaration that removes the voluntary aspect. I agree it seems counter intunitive.

[Mordekiem]

You are missing the point. The declaration of moving flat out stops you from disembarking ( or embarking) Before the vehicle has moved at all. It is the declaration that removes the voluntary aspect. I agree it seems counter intunitive.

But the declaration means nothing. It just says how far I want to try to go when I tank shock.

 

Speed is determined by the actual distance travelled.

Per the rulebook. pg 70, BRB.

"A fast vehicle going flat out moves more than 12" and up to 18"."

 

And on pg 57

"A vehicle that travels up to 6" is moving at combat speed."

 

So if my tank only moved 6" it is at combat speed per page 57, NOT flat out. To get to flat out I need to move over 6 more inches.

 

At combat speed a unit is allowed to disembark.

[SeattleDV8]

start of movement. I wish to disembark. how far has my transport moved? if I declare I am going to go flat out I Can NOT disembark. But by your logic since the vehicle has not moved i should be able to. Once you add that term "flat out" embarking stops being voluntary. Rhino on a road can move more than 12" and disembark. by the logic you use you could not.

[Mordekiem]

start of movement. I wish to disembark. how far has my transport moved? if I declare I am going to go flat out I Can NOT disembark. But by your logic since the vehicle has not moved i should be able to. Once you add that term "flat out" embarking stops being voluntary. Rhino on a road can move more than 12" and disembark. by the logic you use you could not.

You're reading ALOT more into my argument than I am putting there. I never said the unit can disembark before I move. I never said anything about rhinos on roads.

 

A unit could not disembark before I move because at that point I intend to move flat out. But once my attempt to move flat out has failed and I have only moved at combat speed then the unit can disembark.

 

You'll also notice my quote about going flat out only mentioned Fast vehicles.

 

I think you need to carefully re-read what I've been trying to say. It appears we are discussing different situations.

[SeattleDV8]

I see what your talking about,but the actual inches moved doesn't really define whats happening on the board. The rhino moving over 12" but still able to disembark. Unless it was a BA rhino with OCE then it would be a Fast vehicle thus moving flat out and would not be able to Disembark. My reading is that once the words "flat out" are used that changes the FAST transports status. the failure or success of the movement is besides the point.

[nighthawks]

in short - when simply moving, you may move as far as you want so long as it is legal, and all following actions (shooting, disembarkation, etc...) depend upon the distance moved vs. vehicle profile (fast, skimmer, etc..)

 

when you delcare that you are going to tank shock, you forfeit normal movement rules for the tank shock rules. movement becomes a turn in place then STRAIT LINE, at a DECLARED SPEED. this declaration determines what you may shoot and whether or not passengers can voluntarily disembark in the next phases.

 

get it?

[King_Pash]

in short - when simply moving, you may move as far as you want so long as it is legal, and all following actions (shooting, disembarkation, etc...) depend upon the distance moved vs. vehicle profile (fast, skimmer, etc..)

 

when you delcare that you are going to tank shock, you forfeit normal movement rules for the tank shock rules. movement becomes a turn in place then STRAIT LINE, at a DECLARED SPEED. this declaration determines what you may shoot and whether or not passengers can voluntarily disembark in the next phases.

 

get it?

 

Yeah, i'm with you buddy. Cheers. :lol:

[SeattleDV8]

Thanks Nighthawk thats a good way to explain it.

[Mordekiem]

in short - when simply moving, you may move as far as you want so long as it is legal, and all following actions (shooting, disembarkation, etc...) depend upon the distance moved vs. vehicle profile (fast, skimmer, etc..)

 

when you delcare that you are going to tank shock, you forfeit normal movement rules for the tank shock rules. movement becomes a turn in place then STRAIT LINE, at a DECLARED SPEED. this declaration determines what you may shoot and whether or not passengers can voluntarily disembark in the next phases.

get it?

I completely get what you are saying. But I'd like a rules reference that even hints at the fact that the distance I declared (i.e. want to move) determines my speed not the actual distance travelled. All the references to speed I can locate say actual distance travelled determines speed, not how far you wish to go.

 

You are making a strong statement that I underlined. Now I am asking you for actual rules to back it up. The ball is in your court.

[nighthawks]

BBB P. 68:

"...first turn the vehicle on the spot ... declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

"Once the vehicle has been 'aimed' and the speed declared, move the vehicle strait forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or reaches the the distance declared."

"If the tank moved slowly enough ... it may fire as normal in the shooting phase"

 

P70:Fast Transport Vehicles

"Passengers may not ... disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out..."

 

so I have support for the speed needing to be declared BEFORE movement, the change from normal to special movement rules, and a statement about fast transport vehicle movement speed vs disembarkation, and the restrictions from declared intention to move at "flat out" speed.

[Mordekiem]

BBB P. 68:

"...first turn the vehicle on the spot ... declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move."

"Once the vehicle has been 'aimed' and the speed declared, move the vehicle strait forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or reaches the the distance declared."

"If the tank moved slowly enough ... it may fire as normal in the shooting phase"

 

P70:Fast Transport Vehicles

"Passengers may not ... disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out..."

 

so I have support for the speed needing to be declared BEFORE movement, the change from normal to special movement rules, and a statement about fast transport vehicle movement speed vs disembarkation, and the restrictions from declared intention to move at "flat out" speed.

Nothing there that says that if I declare 18" of move but only move 6" that I count as moving flat out. In the the "until it reaches an enemy unit" part seems to indicate that you may not move the full movement distance you declared.

 

The part from pg 70 I would agree if you wanted to disembark before you moved. At that point you are intending to move flat out so cannot disembark. But once you are stopped by that powerfist at 6" you are no longer moving any further. So after you move you may disembark.

 

And pg 57 seems to agree with me.

"A vehicle that travels up to 6" is moving at combat speed."

 

So I feel like I am going in circles and am saying the same thing repeatedly. So unless anyone has something new to add I'm going to let my argument stand and let the readers decide what they think is best. If someone can find a rules reference that says declared speed equals actual speed then I will check it out.

[SeattleDV8]

It's Not the number of inches moved that restricts you. Many vehicle can move faster than crusing speed and are allowed to disembark, IE on a road, red orc trucks. It's just the way fast transports work, the declaration is the key . you are still going flat out when you hit the other vehicle even though you are stopped dead. Ah well agree to disagree.

[Mordekiem]

It's Not the number of inches moved that restricts you. Many vehicle can move faster than crusing speed and are allowed to disembark, IE on a road, red orc trucks. It's just the way fast transports work, the declaration is the key . you are still going flat out when you hit the other vehicle even though you are stopped dead. Ah well agree to disagree.

Name one unit that can go flat out and still disembark units. If you can I will show you a special rule in the codex that allows it to do so.

 

Regular transports (such as a rhino) on roads move more than 12", but are still at cruising speed (box on pg 57, BRB). A Red orc truk can move 13", but I believe the codex specifically states that the extra inch is not used to determine speed travelled so is going at cruising speed as well. I don't have the ork codex so I cannot give you an exact reference or pg number.. If I'm wrong I am sure someone will point it out. :lol: And in both of these cases the speed is still determined by the actual number of inches moved. They don't "declare" anything. They just move.