Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Successor Chapters and Gene-seed: Building a Better Index Astartes Article One difficult choice when creating a DIY Chapter (especially for those new to the hobby) is chosing the chapter's heritage. What effects does chosing gene-seed have on your nascent chapter? What gene-seeds are you 'allowed' to choose? This thread is designed to help frater who are having trouble choosing the gene-seed for their DIY chapter. While it is often not the key element, your choice of gene-seed can go a long way towards defining the character of your chapter. It's an important choice. This thread aims to explain the benefits and disadvantage of each gene-seed, to collect together any important fluff relating to the seeds, and to help you make an informed decision whilst steering clear of choices that most fluff purists would consider unpalatable. Table of Contents The Emperor's Gift: The Gene-seed and Organs of the Astartes Dark Angels: The Gene-Seed of Lion el'Jonson White Scars: The Gene-Seed of Jaghatai Khan Space Wolves: The Gene-seed of Leman Russ Imperial Fists: The Gene-seed of Rogal Dorn Blood Angels: The Gene-seed of Sanguinius Iron Hands: The Gene-Seed of Ferrus Manus Ultramarines: The Gene-Seed of Roboute Guilliman Salamanders: The Gene-seed of Vulkan Raven Guard: The Gene-Seed of Corax Darker Times: 13th and 21st Founding Chapters The Touch of Perfidy: The Gene-Seed of the Traitor Legions 'Records Missing...' Summary and Conclusion Bibliography and References Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 The Emperor's Gift: The Gene-seed and Organs of the Astartes As part of their creation, Space Marines have nineteen different organs surgically implanted. These organs are grown from the progenoid glands retrieved from other marines. It is an undeniable fact that over the millennia, the gene-seed of some chapters has mutated. This means that some chapters have experienced changes in the function and nature of their organs. Some chapters might find an organ becoming entirely useless, or having unexpected effects. Whatever the result, it will typically affect the entire chapter. This isn't necessarily the case - one of the functions of the Apothecaries is to isolate and destroy defective gene-seed. Sometimes, however, their attention is not stringent enough, or entirely inadequate. The Organs of the Adeptus Astartes 1 - The Secondary HeartPlaceholder 2 - The OssmodulaPlaceholder 3 - The BiscopeaPlaceholder 4 - The HaemastamenPlaceholder 5 - The Larraman's OrganPlaceholder 6 - The Catalepsean NodePlaceholder 7 - The PreomnorPlaceholder 8 - The OmophageaPlaceholder 9 - The Multi-LungPlaceholder 10 - The OcculobePlaceholder 11 - The Lyman's EarPlaceholder 12 - The Sus-an MembranePlaceholder 13 - The Melanchrome/The Melanchromic OrganPlaceholder 14 - The Oolitic KidneyPlaceholder 15 - The NeuroglottisPlaceholder 16 - The MucranoidPlaceholder 17 - The Betcher's GlandPlaceholder 18 - The ProgenoidsPlaceholder 19 - The Black CarapacePlaceholder Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Dark Angels: The Gene-Seed of Lion El'Jonson Primarch: Lion El'Jonson Successor Chapters: Angels of Absolution[1], Angels of Redemption[1], Angels of Vengeance[1], Angels of Vigilance (Suspected)[2], Consecrators[1], Disciples of Caliban[1], Guardians of the Covenant[1]. Known Genetic Issues: 'There are no known aberrations in the Dark Angels' gene-seed which makes the reluctance of the High Lords of Terra to utilise it in the founding of new Chapters perplexing. No doubt there are other successor Chapters of the Dark Angels, but their names and when they were founded are unrecorded.'[3] The gene-seed of the Dark Angels is said to be "one of the purest and least degraded of all"[source?]. Despite its' purity, it seems the High Lords of Terra do not actively utilise Dark Angels gene-seed in the creation of chapters.[source?] The reasoning behind this is not clear, but it could be surmised that it they do not trust the Dark Angels and their secretive ways. Despite this, Dark Angels Chapter Master Anaziel petitioned the High Lords of Terra for a Chapter to be raised from the Dark Angels in .M37 - this request was granted, giving rise to the Disciples of Caliban[1]. Other DA successors have been founded but "their names and when they were founded are unrecorded."[source?] Given this framework, there is wide range of opportunities available for a Dark Angels-based DIY. Can I make a Dark Angels successor chapter? '...the High Lords of Terra [are reluctant] to sanction the use of Dark Angels geneseed in the creation of new Chapters.'[4] The Dark Angels and their descendents provide a very multi-faceted resource for DIY successors. The above quotes show that there are Dark Angels successors, although they would seem to be rare. Due to the history of the original Dark Angels legion, however, there are several important factors to consider when creating a chapter drawn from the gene-seed of the Lion. What do I have to take into account when making a DA successor? Combat Doctrine and Chapter Organization: It is possible that Dark Angels successors could utilise the army list present in Codex: Dark Angels, representing the chapter adopting a similar structure to their parent. It is worth noting, however, that many successor chapters would not have the sheer number of terminator suits to utilise a Deathwing Army-list (however, you're free to fluff it out!). Alternatively, a successor could take to the Codex Astartes, or utilise the chapter traits from Codex: Space Marines. The Unforgiven and the Fallen: The Dark Angels and their three successor chapters from the second founding are known collectively as the 'Unforgiven'. These chapters suffer the legacy of their fallen captain, Luther, who lead a faction of the original Dark Angels legion into rebellion during the Horus Heresy. To this day, remnants of those original defectors still exist in the galaxy and are known as 'The Fallen' -Chaos marines who once stood against their brethren during the great schism. Due to these past atrocities, the Unforgiven are especially independent and secretive Chapters. Any known attempt to reconnoiter protected information is shunned an expelled by any means. This is one of the key reasons behind the "Interrogator-Chaplains" present within the Dark Angels. Inquisitorial Scrutiny: It has been noted that Dark Angels are known to withdraw from active combat zones if they are confronted by Imperial Inquisitors or Missionaries, in order to avoid scrutiny[source?]. Chapters based on Dark Angels gene-seed may well be victim to similar Inquisitorial Investigation, and may also need to take similar precautionary measures. Abhumans and Mutants: Another key fact is that the Dark Angels are especially intolerant of non-humans and mutants, and will refuse to fight alongisde armies that include alien races (including 'benevolent' races such as the Kroot or Eldar) or Abhumans (such as Ratlings and Ogryns)[source?]. It is up to you whether your chapter follows similar doctrines - but if not, remember to explain why not! :lol: Rivalry with the Space Wolves: Due to an incident between the primarchs of each Chapter during the Horus Heresy, the great rivalry of “The Lion and the Wolf” has existed ever since. The repercussion of this ancient fight is felt by every descendent marine and expressed openly by all related Chapters on both sides. When these two Chapters cross paths this can manifest in many ways, open aggression being among them. Whenever the Dark Angels and Space Wolves serve together in battle, a champion from each army is chosen for an honour duel.[5][6] Whether or not your chapter also has an emnity towards the Space Wolves is your decision. It's up to the Space Wolves how they feel about your guys... Temporary Bibliography: [1] Codex: Dark Angels, PP.74-75 (2006) [2] http://web.archive.org/web/20060827024927/.../vigilance.html , accessed 17th September 2008 [3] Index Astartes: Dark Angels [4] Index Astartes: Relictors [5] Codex: Dark Angels, P.20 (2006) [6] http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/...els-killteam/1/ , accessed 17th September 2008 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 White Scars: The Gene-Seed of Jaghatai Khan Primarch: Jaghatai Khan Successor Chapters: Destroyers[1], Marauders[1], Rampagers[1], Storm Lords[1]. Known Genetic Issues: The gene-seed of the White Scars appears to be stable and initially displayed on aberrations or mutation. With the introduction of genetic material from the steppes tribesmen, the genome seems to have inherited their wild savagery and thirst for war.'[1] Can I make a White Scars successor Chapter? Whilst the White Scars' Index Astartes article makes reference to the Destroyers, Marauders, Rampagers and Storm Lords as the 'successors' of the White Scars, it could easily be suggested that they are not the only descendents of Jaghatai Khan. So yes, you could quite easily make a White Scars successor chapter. What should I take into account when making a White Scars successor? 'The White Scars successor Chapters, the Rampagers, Marauders, Destroyers and the Storm Lords are all equally ferocious and fine examples of the combat teachings of Jaghatai Khan.'[1] Placeholder Section [1] Index Astartes: White Scars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Space Wolves: The Gene-seed of Leman Russ Primarch: Leman Russ Successor Chapters: Wolf Brothers[source?] (Disbanded due to Genetic Instability)[source?] Known Genetic Issues: Canis Helix, Curse of the Wulfen Can I make a Space Wolves successor Chapter? The Space Wolves' history regarding successor chapters has always been difficult: "The Space Wolves were never a very large Legion and so were divided only once, creating the ill-fated Wolf Brothers Chapter. Perhaps the High Lords recognised the problems of genetic instability that would plague the genetic seed of Leman Russ, giving rise in later times to the terrible curse of Wulfen, and therefore decided against dividing and further spreading the Space Wolves' genetic base." The Wolf Brothers were exterminated for genetic instability, presumably involving the curse of the Wulfen. Since then, the High Lords of Terra have never created another successor to the Space Wolves. Therefore, the straightest answer you'll get is that no, you cannot create a Space Wolves successor chapter. There are always other options, however. Lone Wolves White Dwarf 245 (UK) had an article entitled 'Lone Wolves' which tells the story of several groups of Space Wolves who appear to have seperated from the bulk of the chapter. It states: "Amongst other Space Marine chapters such behaviour would be viewed as a fatal breach of discipline, those involved would be declared renegade and mercilessly hunted down. However, the Space Wolves primarch, Leman Russ, was always renowned for his independence and impetuosity, and I believe these traits remain predominant within the chapter. The oaths of fealty undertaken by the Wolf Lords of the Space Wolf Great Companies declare their allegiance to Russ and the Emperor but do not stipulate servitude to the Great Wolf. It appears that in some cases a Wolf Lord and his Great Company separate from the main body of the chapter, undertaking their own quests and missions for a variety of reasons. The case of Jotun Bearclaw, for example, indicates that his men elected not to return to Fenris because of the long journey time through warp space, and presumably the temporal displacement they would suffer on arrival (potentially several years over such a distance). I suspect that there is some more hidden motive behind the Company's actions, one which [has not been shared by Jotun Bearclaw]. As to the long term viability of these 'lost companies' it is difficult to say. Given sufficient geneseed and technical competence it is entirely possible for such a company to maintain it's strength over a protracted period, inducting and training new recruits in the same way as a normal chapter. Less well-supplied companies might have to resort to training ordinary humans to fill their ranks or face the prospect of gradually dwindling in numbers until the company ceases to exist. Speculation aside, this subject obviously requires further investigation, A Space Wolves Company is a substantial organisation and the concept of having such groups wandering the galaxy without any check or balance is somewhat worrying...." This article can be taken to suggest that there are a few companies of Space Wolves that have left the company of the rest of the chapter. Each great company could be as large as eight hundred marines. If this is the case, rather than creating a successor chapter, you could detail the reasons why your Wolf Lord has seperated from the Great Wolf, Logan Grimnar. The Cursed Founding It's entirely possible that experiments could have been conducted to stabilise the Space Wolves' gene-seed during the 21st or 13th Foundings. Please see 'Darker Times' for further information. What do I have to take into account when creating a Space Wolf successor Chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Imperial Fists: The Gene-seed of Rogal Dorn Primarch: Rogal Dorn Successor Chapters: Black Templars[source?], Crimson Fists[source?], Soul Drinkers[source?] Known Genetic Issues: Missing Betcher's Gland Missing Sus-an Membrane Can I make an Imperial Fists successor Chapter? What should I take into account when creating an Imperial Fists successor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Blood Angels: The Gene-seed of Sanguinius Primarch: Sanguinius Successor Chapters: Angels Encarmine[source?], Angels Sanguine[1], Angels Vermilion[source?], Blood Drinkers[1], Flesh Eaters[source?], Flesh Tearers[1] Known Genetic Issues: Black Rage, Red Thirst Can I make a Blood Angels successor Chapter? The short answer is yes. you can make a Blood Angels successor. There are, however, special considerations that you should take note of when creating a BA successor. '[The Blood Angels'] Successor Chapters were created before discovery of the Blood Angels' flaw... doubtless there are many in dark and far-flung corners of the galaxy, each trying to battle the legacy that is the Red Thirst.'' This quote has been used by most to suggest that the High Lords of Terra stopped using Blood Angels gene-seed once the effects of the Red Thirst were recognised. Since the fluff is not specific as to when the flaw was discovered, it's been suggested that BA successors should generally derive from early foundings, with between the 3rd – 10th Foundings as a basic guideline. (The 2nd Founding Chapters have been provided in Codex: Blood Angels and listed above). It is known that during the 21st Founding, experimentation was conducted upon the Lamenters (who are suspected to be Blood Angels successors).[source?] It can be assumed that similar experiments may have happened during the 13th Founding. See '13th 'Dark' Founding/21st 'Cursed' Founding' later in this text. What do I have to take into account when making a BA successor? In the headings that follow, the differentiating qualities that define Blood Angel Chapters are provided. To some extent, fluff for a BA successor should include or account for these specific attributes. Genetic Differences between Blood Angels and other MarinesAs stated above, the primary issue related to the line is 'the flaw', sometimes synonymously called the 'Red Thirst', and its most typical manifestation, the 'Black Rage'. The presence of the flaw creates the psycho/spiritual tendency for BA marines to become overwhelmed with visions of their Primarch’s historic death. Every BA marine must exercise extreme discipline throughout their lives to inhibit its degenerative effects. Despite their best efforts, for many BA marines the Flaw ultimately leads them to progressive stages of hallucinogenic incoherence and ultimately madness. The Black Rage is used to describe the BA’s tendency to “lose control” in the heat of combat. Those that “succumb” to the Rage but are still capable of fighting are organized into Death Company formations where they can honorably serve their last for God-Emperor, beloved Primarch and Chapter (Index Astartes II, pg. 33). If they do not find death on the battlefield, their fate is even more tragic still. Read the full description in Codex: Angels of Death, pgs. 19-21. Another related condition is the BA’s reported tendency toward vampirism. In Codex: Angels of Death, pg. 19, the lust to drink blood is specifically called, The Red Thirst. Like true vampires, the lust to regularly consume blood is hinted at being insatiable, even when there’s no ready enemy to serve as victims. There are still other genetic differences as well. Blood Angels enjoy longevity well beyond their fellow marines. Dante, the most famous of the BA Chapter Masters is reputed to have lived over 1,100 years (Index Astartes II, pg. 37). Also of note, the process by which new marines are genetically altered from their host inductees is much shorter than a typical marine. The reuse of altered blood, taken from the Sanguinary High Priesthood, accelerates the formation process to little more than a year – a full third less than the typical three-year period required of a more typical marine transformation (Index Astartes II, pg 33). Chapter Organization:At the player’s option, a DIY based on the Sanguine geneseed can also employ the basic differences exhibited in the BA Chapter organization. The following is a summary of these differences (See Index Astartes II; pg. 35-36 and Codex: Angels of Death pg. 49). Note: Being assigned to any kind of assault unit is considered an honour for BA marines no matter where they serve in the organizational structure. BA Chapters include Veteran Assault troops as part of their 1st Company makeup. The entire 8th Company is dedicated to Assault troops. 10th Company Scout Units are not necessarily all newly inducted marines. Blood Angels Scouts are, “taken from the most fiery individuals in the Chapter: battle-eager warriors who hunger for close combat.” (Codex: Blood Angels, pg. 3). It’s therefore not unknown for BA marines to live out their entire career serving as Scouts. As noted above, the Death Company adds an additional formation to the Chapter that’s not accounted for in the other company distinctions (it very literally is an 11th, Death “Company”). Also Note: As stated in the Codex: Blood Angels, pg. 3, BA successors can also employ the specialist equipment detailed in that codex. Relation to the Imperium, other marine Chapters and the Inquisition: Chapters from the seed of Sanguinius tend to be viewed with suspicion by the rest of the Imperium. The general citizenry fear rumors of the armored vampires that may fall upon them in the night, lusting for their next meal. Other marine Chapters view their uncontrollable rage as reckless and tactically questionable. The Inquisition, both the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus, are always quick to consider the potential for taint within the Sanguine seed; mutation from their winged primarch and warp-taint from their Khorne-like lust for blood. Such factors make the BA’s a reclusive lot but from what they suffer from their suspicious nature they more than make up for in their battle prowess. The most notable instance was during the wars of Armageddon, Dante being appointed as head over the joint forces for his “legendary leadership” (Codex: Armageddon, pg. 3). Temporary bibliography [1] http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/a...08_BA_Codex.pdf , accessed 17th September 2008. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Iron Hands: The Gene-Seed of Ferrus Manus Primarch: Ferrus Manus Successor Chapters: Brazen Claws[source?], Red Talons[source?] Known Genetic Issues: Can I make an Iron Hands successor Chapter? The gene-seed of the Iron Hands is considered pure and has no proven flaws.[source?] For this reason, its use has never been restricted by the High Lords like that of the Blood/Dark Angels.[source?] So yes, one could make an Iron Hands successor without much fuss. What should I consider when creating an Iron Hands successor? Relationship between the Iron Hands and their successors:[/b] Contact between the three Chapters deteriorated as they became increasingly insular, while contact with other Space Marine Chapters became virtually non-existent. It is widely accepted that, when a Chapter is first founded, a training cadre from another Astartes Chapter with the same gene-seed is sent to raise the new formation and impart their experience and wisdom to the new marines. In the case of the Sons of Ferrus however, you must consider that this training cadre probably won’t be from the Iron Hands themselves. The Iron Hands' Belief System:Another thing that all must consider when doing an Iron Hands successor Chapter is the odd affinity for bionic replacements and belief in the superiority of metal over flesh. Does your chapter share this belief? If not, why not? The fanatically intense hatred of weakness displayed by the Iron Hands would appear to gloss over a hidden and deeply rooted fear of the physical form that is evident throughout the Chapter. This fear seems to increase as the Space Marine matures in age, resulting in more and more extreme mechanization of the body. Where this fear truly originates is unclear, although it is widely believed that some genetic flaw is at work. If the Iron Hands’ fear of the weakness of the flesh is indeed a genetic flaw, then it might easily be passed on to successors. Of course, a successor Chapter of the Iron Hands may not take such a flaw to the extremes of the Hands themselves. They might constantly train and workout to reach the peak of physical perfection. They might obsess over the purity of their gene-seed (kinda ironic). Or maybe it isn’t a genetic flaw at all and your Chapter wont be affected at all. Combat Doctrine and Chapter Organization: The combat doctrine and organization of an Iron Hands successor Chapter would most likely be influenced a lot more by nurture than nature. The Iron Hands, for all their uniqueness, are basically a Codex Chapter. As such, any successor Chapters could get by using Codex: Space Marines (with or without traits). Attitude towards outsiders: The anger and hatred that the Iron Hands feel towards weakness grows daily. They are increasingly doubtful of the strength and worth of their brother Chapters, becoming resigned to the fact that they alone can stamp out the deficiencies that they see besetting humanity from all sides. According to the fluff on them, the Iron Hands hold nearly everything outside the Chapter in contempt. Other Chapters, Imperial Organizations, citizens, etc. They look for and see weakness in everything. It seems though that many Astartes Chapters return the favor and the Iron Hands affinity for the mechanical is frowned upon. Relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus: One exception to this cycle of dislike may be the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Iron Hands have a close link with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and embrace many of the beliefs of the Machine Cult…. The Iron Hands often make use of weaponry and armoury that is generally unseen outside the Mars-based Cult. Apparently, the Iron Hands and Mechanicus share a close relationship. Beyond the two organizations sharing like beliefs, no one knows why the two are so close. Obviously the Iron Hands benefit by getting their armories filled up with top-notch gear, but it is unclear what the Mechanicus are getting out of the deal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Ultramarines: The Gene-Seed of Roboute Guilliman Primarch: Roboute Guilliman Successor Chapters: Angels Porphyr [source?], Aurora chapter [source?], Black Consuls [source?], Brotherhood of Ultramar[source?], [Death Eagles[source?], Doom Eagles[source?], Eagle Warriors[source?], Fire Hawks[source?], Genesis[source?], Heralds of Ultramar[source?], Howling Griffons[source?], Imperial Paladins[source?], Inceptors[source?], Libators[source?], Liberators[source?], Masters of Protelus[source?], Mentors[source?], Metamarines[source?], Mortifactors[1], Nemesis[source?], Omega Marines[source?], Patriarchs of Ulixis[source?], Praetors of Orpheus[source?], Novamarines[source?], Relictors (Suspected)[2], Scythes of the Emperor[source?],Silver Eagles[source?], Silver Skulls[source?], Sons of Guilliman[source?], Star Dragons[source?], White Consuls[source?]. Known Genetic Issues: None Can I make an Ultramarines successor Chapter? It is said that the Ultramarines have sired 'nearly three-fifths'[3] of Space Marine Chapters. What should I take into account when creating an Ultramarines successor? The Codex Astartes: Temporary Section [1] Warriors of Ultramar, P.XX (2003) [2] Index Astartes: Relictors [3] Codex: Space Marines, P.47 (1998) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Salamanders: The Gene-seed of Vulkan Primarch: Vulkan Successor Chapters: Black Dragons (unconfirmed), Storm Giants (unconfirmed) Known Genetic Issues: None Known Can I make an Salamanders successor Chapter? The first thing everybody seems to notice though is that the Salamanders, unlike every other Legion, never has had any concrete evidence of successors. There have been some suspected, but none proven. However, the gene-seed of the Salamanders appears to be stable and pure and has no proven flaws that anyone can ascertain, so the High Lords or Mechanicus probably wouldn’t restrict it from use. So it’s safe to say that one could easily make a Salamanders’ successor chapter as long as they aren’t from the 2nd Founding. It is a matter of debate whether there have been Successor Chapters during subsequent Foundings, although it appears likely and many scholars point to similarities in the physique, markings and tactical dogma of Chapters such as the Storm Giants and Black Dragons. What should I keep in mind when creating an Salamanders successor? As far as can be ascertained, the Salamanders' gene-seed appears to be stable and as yet uncorrupted. The reflexes of Salamanders Space Marines are not as fast as those of other Chapters, although still quick when suited in power armour. However, it is unknown whether this is due to a defect in the gene-seed, a result of their high gravity world, or comes about from the Chapter's doctrines against hastiness and impetuosity. Because there is no evidence that the Black Dragons or Storm Giants have any problems with reflexes, it is very possible that the Salamanders’ own sluggishness is a result of their homeworld and beliefs. However, because the Black Dragons or Storm Giants aren’t proven successors, the Salamanders’ slow reflexes (comparatively speaking) just might be due to a genetic oddity. Because of the possibility of a minor corruption of the gene-seed, successor chapters might inherit the same lethargic demeanor of the Salamanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Raven Guard: The Gene-Seed of Corax Primarch: Corax Successor Chapters: Black Guard[source?], Raptors[source?], Revilers[source?] Known Genetic Issues: Missing Betcher's Gland Missing Mucranoid Severely Mutated Melanchrome Can I make a Raven Guard successor Chapter? As with many other First Founding ‘Legions’, you can make a Raven Guard successor Chapter, but there are some thing that one should consider when doing so. The gene-seed of the Raven Guard is far from stable and a great deal of their gene-stock has become irreparably damaged, perhaps as a side effect of the accelerate gene-harvesting techniques employed many millennia ago. Because of the deterioration of the Raven Guard gene-seed, it is far from being an ideal resource for new Chapters. There are no official Raven Guard successors after the Second Founding, but because nothing mentions otherwise, it can probably be assumed that the High Lords may still use the Raven Guard gene-seed. What do I have to take into account when making a RG successor? One of the most important things to keep in mind when making a Raven Guard successor Chapter is the many flaws in their damaged gene-seed. The missing Betcher's Gland: The Raven Guard and any successors are missing this particular organ which allows a marine to spit acid. This wont make much difference in a DIY Chapter, but does make an Astartes warrior that much less lethal. The missing Mucranoid: The missing Mucranoid can be a much bigger deal than the missing betcher’s gland in most cases. This organ lets the marine sweat out a protective waxy substance that coats the skin and protect a marine to degree against extreme heat and vacuum. Because those with the gene-seed of Corax are missing this organ, they are basically required to be in full battle dress when operating in the vacuum or in environments with lots of radiation/UV rays. Mutated Melanchrome: the Melanchromic Organ has a unique mutation that, over the years of service, causes the skin of the Space Marine to grow paler. Eventually they will be as white as their Primarch and their hair and eyes will darken, becoming black as coal. Because this is a gene-seed flaw, it is something that will be carried over to any Raven Guard successors. Any and all marines with the gene-seed will change in the way described in the above post as they grow older. The pale skin may even make the marines more susceptible to something like skin cancer if they are not covered properly. Combat Doctrine and Chapter Organization As a result, much of their genetic material has to come from Terra and therefore the cycle of recruitment for the Raven Guard is much slower than other Chapters. Few candidates for the Chapter prove able to sustain the transformation from a normal human being to a Space Marine and many die early in training, further limiting the Chapter in numbers. It can be assumed that successors of the Raven Guard will suffer from a similar problem. They can’t afford to take heavy casualties. And if a successors’ modus operandi and organization aren’t tailored to limit casualties, then the Chapter will likely be forced to take longer amounts of times away from battle to rebuild their numbers or just settle with an under strength formation. In summary, the Raven Guard and their successors are almost forced into being more cautious then any other Astartes Chapters. Relation to the Imperium, other marine Chapters and the Inquisition For the leaders of the Raven Guard, tactical prowess and personal initiative is seen as more important than mere might. If there is the possibility of using a swift dagger to the heart instead of a drawn-out fight, the Raven Guard are the ones to find it, though if heavy assault is needed they will not hold back. These beliefs cause some tension between the Raven Guard and other Chapters, particularly the Blood Angels, who they see as brutish and clumsy. It can be assumed from this snippet from the Raven Guard IA that they look down on other Astartes Chapters which do not consider all options and prefer to simply crush their enemies face-to-face in pitched battles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Darker Times: 13th and 21st Founding Chapters Chapters known to be part of the Thirteenth Founding: Exorcists[source?] Chapters known to be part of the Twenty-First Founding: Black Dragons[1], Fire Hawks[1], Flame Falcons[2], Lamenters[1], Minotaurs[2], Sons of Antaeus[2]. Can I make a Chapter from the Thirteenth or Twenty-First Founding? What should I take into account when making a Chapter from these Foundings? Temporary Section [1] http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/cursed/2/ , accessed 17th September 2008 [2] http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/cursed/3/ , accessed 17th September 2008 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 The Touch of Perfidy: The Gene-Seed of the Traitor Legions Can I Create a Chapter Using Traitor Gene-Seed? Well, technically you could. It's worth noting, however, that most people will frown upon such chapters. Why technically? Well: '[After the heresy]... the Adeptus Terra created genetic repositories to produce and store Space Marine gene-seed... The gene-seed of the Traitor Legions was placed under a time-locked stasis seal, although at the time many believed these dangerous gene stocks should be destroyed. There is gene-seed from the traitor legions stored on Earth and available for use by the Imperium. Officially, it's been untouched since the heresy, but we know as players that things in the 40k universe rarely go the way official Imperial records say. Perhaps the gene-seed was secretly stolen by the Inquisition, or perhaps the High Lords have even secretly utilised the gene-seed; it's certainly one theory behind the 13th and 21st foundings. The alternate argument, however, is that the Imperium doesn't need to use potentially dangerous gene-seed when they have plentiful stocks of Ultramarines genetic material that could be used to create loyal chapters. Is it likely that the High Lords would allow any such chapter to learn or know their origins? There may be chapters with traitor gene-seed who believe their heritage comes from another primarch entirely. In the end, if you're dead-set on creating a chapter with such gene-seed, it's probably best to subtly hint at their legacy rather than stating it out-right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 'Records Missing...' For example: Blood Ravens In both GW and novice fluff, marine players have created DIY Chapters lacking certain historical information. In all the examples above, a DIY chapter is built upon a set foundation derived from Primarch, Founding and key incidents in their history. In rare cases, this background information is not available to the Chapter in question. Their records are “missing” either lost to the mythic past or due to decisive action, i.e. damnatio memmoriae, their records expunged. This often becomes an overriding aspect of the Chapter’s makeup as the quest for context becomes part of their overall mandate. Unfortunately, novice writers may be attracted to this background as a potential “cop-out.” It’s an convenient excuse to get out of providing creative details. Fluff is not required if nothing is actually known about their Chapter, least of all to themselves. In order to add depth to a DIY with a mysterious past, more creative effort is required not less. The following are some topics to consider carefully before unleashing a lost band of orphaned marines upon a hapless Imperium. Do remember that ambiguity in the right place can be a good thingAmbiguity, conjecture, conspiracy theories... when done in the right way it can lend an air of mystery to your chapters history. It is a way of inserting a juicy plot-hook into the story to tickle the reader. For instance, people still ask about the missing two legions, there is conjecture about Inquisitorial / Assassin involvement in the Celestial Lions downfall during the Third War for Armageddon and the destruction of the Crimson Fists Fortress-Monastery, and those metal hands that Ferrus Manus got - were they from fighting a C'Tan? Like a magician, don't reveal all your secrets. “Records Missing” and continuity The basic problem with the “records missing” premise is the fact that it begs many probative questions. Why are the records missing? What are the ramifications surrounding the loss? What progress is being made from within and without the Chapter to discover the missing origins? The assertion that Chapter records are “lost” is problematic by itself: The Martian Techno Cult could easily trace back geneseed samples to donating Primarch. The historical deeds of marine Chapters are legendary. Why aren’t there any records of their great exploits? Setting up recruitment and training operations is a long and arduous process that takes decades to establish. Why did operations cease? How were they reestablished elsewhere after their initial incarnation was lost? A Fortress Monetary is a very hardened military enclave. Why are the records not safe behind its protective walls? If it was destroyed, how did that occur? Why didn’t any sympathetic forces come to their aid? If the Chapter was purposely expunged how did the remnant survive? How do they continue to survive in an Empire desirous of their ultimate eradication? A subset of these questions or the equivalent should fit somewhere into the storyline of a mystery Chapter. Established fluff to consider If you do take this as your background of preference there are viable explanations within the GW fluff to support this. The First Founding is an event of mythic proportions, shrouded in 10,000 years of legend, supposition and mystery, and even the details of the Second Founding are obscured by millennia of hearsay. Over the course of the long and bloody history of the Imperium as many as 1,000 Space Marine chapters have been created, perhaps many more. No one person or administrative body has any means of determining the exact number, as the Imperium has suffered periods of great turmoil, during which reliable records have been purged, revised, rescinded, destroyed in cataclysmic destruction or simply lost. In many cases, the only source of information regarding the Foundings, and many other aspects of the history of the Imperium, is to be found in myth and legend, which are taken, even by the most highly placed and informed men in the Imperium, as canon. Along those lines, the following are some additional suggestions/guidelines help fit your chapter into the flow of the 40k universe. The list is by no means exhaustive. It is only meant to inspire creative thinking when it comes to your own Chapter. This section is broken down by the basic reasoning behind the records missing question. 1. The Chapter was once established but its records are now lost. a. Their Fortress/Homeworld was destroyed in the distant past and their records were not retained by the diaspora. c. The Chapter (or an internal faction thereof, or another Imperial organisation) destroyed their own records. 2. The Chapter was formed during the 13th 'Dark' or 21st 'Cursed' Foundings. a. Their gene-seed was created through unsanctioned experimentation and then covered up. b. Their gene-seed was created through covert action and considered top secret. 3. The Chapter was deemed impure and expunged from the Imperium a. The Chapter genetically hosts a deviant Mutation (and it must be pretty damn deviant) and was destroyed by the Ordo Hereticus b. The Chapter committed heresy or is deemed tainted by the Warp and was destroyed by the Ordo Malleus c. The Chapter was deemed to have fraternised with aliens and destroyed by the Ordo Xenos d. The Chapter was deemed responsible for inciting a rebellion and destroyed by the High Lords of Terra “Records Missing” and continuing the story Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Summary and Conclusion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Bibliography and References 'The Emperor's Gift' 'Dark Angels' 'White Scars' 'Space Wolves' 'Imperial Fists' 'Blood Angels' 'Iron Hands' 'Ultramarines' 'Salamanders' 'Raven Guard' 'Darker Times' 'The Touch of Perfidy' 'Records Missing...' 'Summary and Conclusion' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barret Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 A discussion thread for this sticky can be found here. All discussion of this topic should be done there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146305-gene-seed-and-diy/#findComment-1696625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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