yergerjo Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 As a Fast and Skimmer vehicle what are the movement speeds and firing rates of your typical Land Speeder? Is this correct? Combat Speed 6" Cruising Speed 12" Flat Out 18" Flat Out on Road 24" Moving at Cruising speed needs a 4+ to hit, while Flat Out needs a 6 to hit? At Cruising Speed is it is only able to fire 1 weapon? Just looking for verification because I am unsure from reading the rules AND playing against a friend's Tau which he claims are all Fast and Skimmers and move 12" and fire all weapons... Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banville Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 If it's Fast it can fire only one offensive weapon at Cruising Speed. Tau can upgrade all their vehicles to Fast meaning that he can indeed move Hammerheads 12" and fire their Railguns. It can't fire its Burst Cannons as well though. If a vehicle is moving FLAT OUT i.e. over 12" all hits against it are glancing on 4+. Therefore if you hit the aforementioned Hammerhead he needs to roll a 4+ to downgrade that hit to glancing, meaning they're a hell of a lot easier to take out. Similarly if he's moving Flat Out he can't shoot anything so it's an either/or situation for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1700803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 As per page 71, "Moving Skimmers", a skimmer that is fast can move at 24". I am unsure if skimmers benefit from roads, giving a range of 30" for a fast one, but I cannot find anything that suggests they ignore beneficial effects, only that they ignore difficult/dangerous, unless starting or ending in it. I would like to think it ignores them but can find no evidence to support this. Banville, You might want to re-read the rules for skimmers. It's a straight cover save when moving flat out. Nothing to do with auto glances any more, just ignore the hit completely on a 4+, assuming cover saves apply to the attack. Incidentally, this does create a slightly odd situation when moving on roads, assuming for a second that it does benefit from the extra speed. As the cover save is granted by moving flat out, not moving over 12", this means you could move 18" on a road and not get a save, but move flat out on open terrain at 18" and get a cover save. Anyone got any thoughts on this? Also, a fast vehicle (skimmer or otherwise) moving at cruising speed can fire one main and all defensive, as if it were a normal vehicle moving at combat speed. At combat speed, it may fire all weapons. Essentially, they behave as if moving at one speed category lower than they actually are for the purpose of firing weapons. So no, you cannot normally fire all weapons when moving 12", unless you have 1 main and/or S4 weapons (or no S value) only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurth Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I am unsure if skimmers benefit from roads ROADSVehicles, with the exception of walkers and skimmers, (…) may move up to an extra 6". So skimmers can't move 30" by following a road ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 That clears that up then. I'm actually rather glad that was me just being thick. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopxi Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I do not have my book on me right now... but I am pretty sure the rules under roads only mention tracked/wheeled vehicles and not skimmers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 As Gurth has so kindly pointed out, roads do exclude skimmers and walkers. So technically, it does mention them, just in the resoundingly negative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banville Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 As per page 71, "Moving Skimmers", a skimmer that is fast can move at 24". I am unsure if skimmers benefit from roads, giving a range of 30" for a fast one, but I cannot find anything that suggests they ignore beneficial effects, only that they ignore difficult/dangerous, unless starting or ending in it. I would like to think it ignores them but can find no evidence to support this. Banville, You might want to re-read the rules for skimmers. It's a straight cover save when moving flat out. Nothing to do with auto glances any more, just ignore the hit completely on a 4+, assuming cover saves apply to the attack. Incidentally, this does create a slightly odd situation when moving on roads, assuming for a second that it does benefit from the extra speed. As the cover save is granted by moving flat out, not moving over 12", this means you could move 18" on a road and not get a save, but move flat out on open terrain at 18" and get a cover save. Anyone got any thoughts on this? Also, a fast vehicle (skimmer or otherwise) moving at cruising speed can fire one main and all defensive, as if it were a normal vehicle moving at combat speed. At combat speed, it may fire all weapons. Essentially, they behave as if moving at one speed category lower than they actually are for the purpose of firing weapons. So no, you cannot normally fire all weapons when moving 12", unless you have 1 main and/or S4 weapons (or no S value) only. Nope, sorry there but page 71 clearly states that Skimmers count "as obscured" on a 4+ after moving flat out. That means glancing hits only, obviously they have to pass the cover save to get this this but it's actually still easier to take them down as opposed to the auto-hit glancing that used to be there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 A skimmer that is not immobilised and has moved flat out in its last Movement phase counts as obscured (cover save of 4+) when fired at. If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may take a cover save against it....If the save is passed, the hit is discarded and no roll is made on the Vehicle Damage table. (Emphasis mine.) No, a sucessful save does not mean a glancing hit, it means no damage at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Nope, sorry there but page 71 clearly states that Skimmers count "as obscured" on a 4+ after moving flat out. That means glancing hits only, obviously they have to pass the cover save to get this this but it's actually still easier to take them down as opposed to the auto-hit glancing that used to be there. :cuss is going on with this guy??? You is confusing me. So, what you are saying, banville, is that: 4th ed rules + 5th ed rules = ... PURPLE?!?!?! ... A skimmer moving flat out counts as being obscured. If vehicle is obscured, it benefits from a 4+ cover save, unless it would otherwise get a better one. Before you post in the official rules board, you should at least read your rulebook. That usually helps your argument out some. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 A skimmer moving flat out counts as being obscured. If vehicle is obscured, it benefits from a 4+ cover save, unless it would otherwise get a better one. So if you fail your cover save the hit counts as glancing (-2 on the vehicle damage chart). If you pass your cover save, no hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 So if you fail your cover save the hit counts as glancing (-2 on the vehicle damage chart). If you pass your cover save, no hit. Seriously, where the hell are you people getting this from? If the save is passed, the hit is discarded and no roll is made on the Vehicle Damage table. This is an exact quote from the BRB for 5th edition of Warhammer 40,000. Do you see anything that suggests passed or failed save = glancing hit? Can you find anything in the afore mentioned rulebook that does say, or even imply this? I believe you will find the answers are no and no, respectively. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Malachi Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 It seems that there is still a lot of confusion between 4th and 5th edition rules. People really need to read all the way through the new rulebook. There are quite a few differences between the two editions, some are subtle. If you simply go by what GW has mentioned on their website or skim through the new rules you will be confused. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctophylax Faren Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Seriously, where the hell are you people getting this from? I'm with you mate... Ok, I'll lay it out for you guys. In FIFTH Edition, if a Fast Skimmer moved FLAT OUT in its last movement phase it counts as OBSCURED. This means if you shoot at it, AFTER Rolling for Penetration, the Skimmer get s 4+ COVER SAVE. If the save is PASSED, the Glancing / Penetrating Hit is disregarded. If the save is FAILED, Roll on the Damage Table. In addition, if it FAILS the save, and suffers an IMMOBILISED result, it is DESTROYED (WRECKED) Hope that sets it all straight... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banville Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Nope, sorry there but page 71 clearly states that Skimmers count "as obscured" on a 4+ after moving flat out. That means glancing hits only, obviously they have to pass the cover save to get this this but it's actually still easier to take them down as opposed to the auto-hit glancing that used to be there. :cuss is going on with this guy??? You is confusing me. So, what you are saying, banville, is that: 4th ed rules + 5th ed rules = ... PURPLE?!?!?! ... A skimmer moving flat out counts as being obscured. If vehicle is obscured, it benefits from a 4+ cover save, unless it would otherwise get a better one. Before you post in the official rules board, you should at least read your rulebook. That usually helps your argument out some. Now, now Manic, we're all friends here. I misread the rule and I apologise. Surely such clarifications are what rules forums are for? Anyway sorry for getting your back up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1701983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Geez- relax guys :) Dude made a mistake. Also- regarding Tau - I may be mistaken but their upgrade only means they can "fire as fast" - they can still not move over 12". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1702540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Geez- relax guys :lol: Dude made a mistake. Also- regarding Tau - I may be mistaken but their upgrade only means they can "fire as fast" - they can still not move over 12". correct Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/146618-land-speeder-movement/#findComment-1702894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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