Valkyries.

[Menathorn]

Greetings Brothers,

 

I am still but a Blood Claw, but I have been wondering about this since I got into making my own Succesors to the Space Wolfs, could there be Valkyrie's in the Chapter? Is there anything suggesting that there couldn't be female Astartes? I don't need to hear about that we have the Sisters of Battle for that, for I don't want a chapter of Valkyrie's, I want to know if there could be any.

 

And since I will probably get some oppinons stured up, have an ale on me before you go. I wouldn't like to be taken down when I leave the great hall :)

 

Regards

Menathorn

[MaveriK]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=101721

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=125463

 

please use the search :P

[Dark Bjoern]

Greetings Brothers,

 

I am still but a Blood Claw, but I have been wondering about this since I got into making my own Succesors to the Space Wolfs, could there be Valkyrie's in the Chapter? Is there anything suggesting that there couldn't be female Astartes? I don't need to hear about that we have the Sisters of Battle for that, for I don't want a chapter of Valkyrie's, I want to know if there could be any.

 

And since I will probably get some oppinons stured up, have an ale on me before you go. I wouldn't like to be taken down when I leave the great hall :)

 

Regards

Menathorn

There´re no female SM cause their physiology didn´t allow their transformation into SM. See the Index Astartes Vol. I article about the creation of new SM from GW. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. That has to do with the creation of the original 20 SM Legions. And no, it´s not possible to change that. The Adeptus Mechanicum is capable to create new SM chapter, but they can´t change the whole process cause they don´t understand how the technology works. They can only operate this technology. Only the Emperor had this knowledge,

And the Sisters of Battle just wear power armour but they lack the black carapace and all other of our enhencements that allowes a real SM to use the PA with full effectivity.

[Doctor Thunder]

And no, it´s not possible to change that.

Sure it is. There are lots of examples of geneseed being altered and experimented on in the fluff. The cursed Founding, Fabius Bile, or even just your basic Inquisitional conspiracy. All you have to do is come up with satisfactory answers to three questions and you'll have your origination story:

1) Who, (or what) would have the ability to modify geneseed to work in females.

2) Why would they do it.

3) What are the consequences.

[Grimfoe]

I'd have to agree the good doctor. I don't see why someone couldn't invent some sort of female space marine, but I don't think it would fit particularly well into any of the existing chapters. (well maybe the dark angels...) I like what the doc did with the Black Widows, for example. There's no reason one couldn't generate that sort of fluff, but I don't think it would work if the female marines were Space Wolves.

[Dark Bjoern]

And no, it´s not possible to change that.

Sure it is. There are lots of examples of geneseed being altered and experimented on in the fluff. The cursed Founding, Fabius Bile, or even just your basic Inquisitional conspiracy. All you have to do is come up with satisfactory answers to three questions and you'll have your origination story:

1) Who, (or what) would have the ability to modify geneseed to work in females.

2) Why would they do it.

3) What are the consequences.

Sure they have experimented with, but with no success. That´s why the Cursed Founding is called the Cursed Founding. They had not the knowledge to change the process to get a stable result. Same for Fabius Bile, that´s why his "creations" have the side effect table.

1) Noone, with the exception of the Emperor, has the ability to get a stable result.

2) Cause those who try it are heretics to the cause ot the Emperor. they are tainted by chaos. There must be a reason why the Emperor wanted his SM male.

3) They will be expurged for the abomination they are in the face of Russ and the Emperor.

 

That should answer your questions :P By the way the Black Widows are an exellent work. B)

[Lone Scout]

Greetings Brothers,

 

I am still but a Blood Claw, but I have been wondering about this since I got into making my own Succesors to the Space Wolfs, could there be Valkyrie's in the Chapter? Is there anything suggesting that there couldn't be female Astartes? I don't need to hear about that we have the Sisters of Battle for that, for I don't want a chapter of Valkyrie's, I want to know if there could be any.

 

And since I will probably get some oppinons stured up, have an ale on me before you go. I wouldn't like to be taken down when I leave the great hall B)

 

Regards

Menathorn

There´re no female SM cause their physiology didn´t allow their transformation into SM. See the Index Astartes Vol. I article about the creation of new SM from GW. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. That has to do with the creation of the original 20 SM Legions. And no, it´s not possible to change that. The Adeptus Mechanicum is capable to create new SM chapter, but they can´t change the whole process cause they don´t understand how the technology works. They can only operate this technology. Only the Emperor had this knowledge,

And the Sisters of Battle just wear power armour but they lack the black carapace and all other of our enhencements that allowes a real SM to use the PA with full effectivity.

Women actually produce more testosterone than men, their bodies use it to produce estogen and pergesterone. Male and female tissues are identical...GW science doesn't work to exclude women from being marines.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

Just thought I would add these things.

1. Though its true that in todays world men and women are considered equal. But, when the emperor created the primarchs earth (Terra) had degenerated to barbarianism like culture. And those who know their history will know that in these times men were considered stronger, and the women inherently were weaker. There for when it came to creating the ultimate warrior, he had no choice (well apart from serious genetic modification but I figure he figured they were gonna be modified enough as it is) to make them male.

2. Then you have to figure that quite a few of the planets out there were in a similar state and so would not follow a female general, even if her superior was male.

3. Lets face it. If you did a street poll and asked people to descibe a "space marine" (not neccisarily the 40K kind) I bet thet most would state that it is a MAN in chunky power armour and using laser rifles.

 

I am not sexist, I just have these points to put forward.

[MaveriK]

http://www.solegends.com/citcat88/4005adventurers-01.jpg

 

Figure #04 top right hand of the page shows a Female in Space Marine armor. I came across the actual figure a long time ago, in my early days playing space wolves. It is in fact a female with short hair in a slimmer marine armor. Although the mini was ugly, keep in mind it was in the early days of Rouge Trader. The minitures then weren't the greatest but at the time they were the best we had and they were the blue prints of what we have now.

[Menathorn]

I knew I should have taken with me some more ale :P

 

This idea has grown on me since I first thought of it, and by reading the threads that I got from MaveriK (Sorry for not using the Search function brother) I gave gotten an idea of how to pull it of. And I am going to base it on the fallowing things:

 

Fluff reasons:

1. It is a Successor Chapter!

2. Space Wolf’s recruiter from the fallen warriors of great battles. Their Home world might have a female warrior tribe, and because of that they are rare to find in the Chapter, but they are still there.

3. Space Wolf gene-seed is, and will continue to, suffer from mutations. Maybe my Wolf priests managed to work out how to get them to work with the female body. They have had over 10 000 years on them to do so.

4. The folklore of my world might support the fact that there is powerful female warriors in the service of the "Gods". Space Marines is the "Gods", here we have the Valkyrie's.

 

My non-Fluff Reasons:

1. I want to do it.

2. I can do it.

3. My hobby.

4. Did I mention I wanted to? ;)

 

So, there we have it. I will be running them as Blood Claw Assault Marines. Might give them wings, but that is something I haven't thought about yet. I am currently writing up the fluff for them. And will soon put a thread up asking for your help when to build them.

 

Feel free to give me all your ideas and criticism. I know its hot topic.

 

Regards

Menathorn

[Doctor Thunder]

Just thought I would add these things.

1. Though its true that in todays world men and women are considered equal. But, when the emperor created the primarchs earth (Terra) had degenerated to barbarianism like culture. And those who know their history will know that in these times men were considered stronger, and the women inherently were weaker. There for when it came to creating the ultimate warrior, he had no choice (well apart from serious genetic modification but I figure he figured they were gonna be modified enough as it is) to make them male.

2. Then you have to figure that quite a few of the planets out there were in a similar state and so would not follow a female general, even if her superior was male.

3. Lets face it. If you did a street poll and asked people to descibe a "space marine" (not neccisarily the 40K kind) I bet thet most would state that it is a MAN in chunky power armour and using laser rifles.

 

I am not sexist, I just have these points to put forward.

I agree with you, and I think the more you try to approach 40K realistically, the more those points apply.

 

My point is, do we like 40K because it is realistic?

 

I don't. I like 40K because it is ridiculously over the top. I like it because we have swords twice as tall as a man, and banners three times as tall. I like 40K because we are in the future but still pull out crossbows and daggers to kill our enemies. I like the fact that a necklace of wolf's teeth will protect a model because he really believes that it will.

 

In other words, I think female marines are cool because they are fantastical and over the top and different.

 

By the way the Black Widows are an exellent work. biggrin.gif

Thanks, bro. :)

[daboarder]

use sob allies and you can make up your own order calling them the fenris valkeries or whatever. i do this with my blood angel company who have close ties with the sanguine sisters. mind you it works easier as sanguinas is the only primarch to be recognized as a "saint" by the rest of the imperium. he even has his own holiday in the canon. of course that doesnt stop you making up you own order of sobs

[Menathorn]

I still think that I wil be doing female Space Wolfs (Valkyrie). I am going to post the fluff to make sure that it works. I have some gtrat ideas for making it work really good. But thanks for the idea. We shall se.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

In Norse myth the Valkries are the choosers of the slain who take the honoured dead to valhalla.

 

in the SW the Wolf Priests fill this role. I'm wondering why the SW's would need females to do this?

[Menathorn]

I'll give you all you need to trust me soon;)

[WolfLordLars]

Ugh.. I avoid Female SM threads like the plague. Try to anyway.. :lol:

 

My belief is that female SM's are impossible. As its a fictional universe, there might be 1000 different reasons why there are no female marines. The established fluff is that there are none, and I stick to that.

 

That wont stop me from playing against them, but be warned, some folks are so into the game that they wont. I have heard of folks having a fit in tournaments, refusing to play against an army that 'could not exist' and other such things. Its crazy.

 

Just be warned, some folks will not be supportive at all. Some will be downright rude about it. I was almost in that crowd myself.

[Menathorn]

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

If someone refuse to play me at a tourne for that reson. Don't I win by walk over?

 

I understand your point of view, and I respect that.

Yet I feel that I would like to be creativ in my way of doing my army. I never thought of it before, now I really like it and can't think of why I didn't do this before.

 

Please tell me what I might hear from my opponent.

[Doctor Thunder]

That wont stop me from playing against them, but be warned, some folks are so into the game that they wont. I have heard of folks having a fit in tournaments, refusing to play against an army that 'could not exist' and other such things.

Cool! So you mean if I get matched up with a Fluffer then I get an auto-massacre? Bonus. :)

 

Please tell me what I might hear from my opponent.

As someone who has female marines, you'll get some flak online, but in real life people will love it.

 

That is because generally the people who are super-obsessive about the fluff spend their time online and rarely play the game, so you don't have to worry about bumping into them, and the tournament crowd appreciate good conversions and painting regardless of how fluffy it is.

[Grimfoe]

As its a fictional universe, there might be 1000 different reasons why there are no female marines. The established fluff is that there are none, and I stick to that.

 

That wont stop me from playing against them, but be warned, some folks are so into the game that they wont. I have heard of folks having a fit in tournaments, refusing to play against an army that 'could not exist' and other such things. Its crazy.

 

Just be warned, some folks will not be supportive at all. Some will be downright rude about it. I was almost in that crowd myself.

 

Gotta say, that's pretty assinine. Not you, Lars, as I respect your honesty and ability to look beyond what you believe should be in the 40K universe. Fluff Nazis like the ones you describe need to get a life though. It is a fictional universe. There is absolutely NO reason you can't model and play with whatever minis you want. What if I wanted to model Squats as Space Marines. Now that marines have workable bikers, etc I could use all GW minis and make a "stunty marine chapter." I'd expect these models would be acceptable at ANY tournament I might attend.

 

I've been out of the game for over 10 years. I'm getting back into the game largely because my 11 year old daughter and 6 year old son are stoked about it after playing Dawn of War. (my 4 year old boy is as well, but I'm really trying to limit him to Space Hulk) Anyway, if my 11 year old wants a female space marine army I'll be all for it. If you get all worked up about my daughter's female TOY SOLDIERS, I say, "Get a life and move out of your parents basement." It's fine not to want that army or make one of your own. And it's fine to say you don't think female marines fit the existing fluff. But if you're so concerned and upset that you'll take your toys go home, Good Riddance.

[Lion in the Stars]

No offense to Doc T, but I don't like the way you built the chest armor for your girls.

 

Menathorn: See if you can find some old RTB01 beakies, they're much more slender than the current Marines (although the detail sucks). Then completely reshape a chestplate. Don't sculpt boobs onto a Marine breastplate, flatten the angles and make a little bit of space for breasts. (If I had a camera and a couple spare torsos I'd show you) It's going to look something like this: http://img185.imageshack.us/%20img185/679/saber30hm7.jpg

 

Here's another pic (sorry, bad angle): http://gcstoys.com/images/product/bomesaber3.jpg

[Doctor Thunder]

No offense to Doc T, but I don't like the way you built the chest armor for your girls.

No offense taken, we all have preferences. :)

[WolfLordLars]

We have a guy in a store in town who actually had a full squat army. Almost all are the older models, from back in the day when they existed. Uses Deathwing rules, and they look pretty awesome.

 

Like I said, personally, I dont care for them. Just like I am not big on folks who want to convert their marines to look like Star Wars Stormtroopers. But, thats just me. I wouldnt refuse to play them or anything like that.. but I will advise folks against it. It just doesnt fit with the game. Not to say you cant do it, but that you shouldnt.

 

Edit: However, if you insist on doing it, at least do a good job with it. Half-necked anime girls with bolters does not a space marine army make. The guy who does Squats used the actual models, but could of easily taken dwarves and made them 40k.. but he modeled them well and had it painted well.

 

Personally, I think if you want 'female marines' use SOB. Perhaps use the rules for SM, but the models work. Also keeps your opponent from using the "GW minis" rule in tournaments. The model must have at least a certain percentage of GW/Citadel miniature in it to be tournament legal, and some 'custom female' models are barely that.

[Doctor Thunder]

Like I said, personally, I don't care for them. Just like I am not big on folks who want to convert their marines to look like Star Wars Stormtroopers. But, that's just me. I wouldn't refuse to play them or anything like that.. but I will advise folks against it. It just doesn't fit with the game. Not to say you cant do it, but that you shouldn't.

Whereas me, I applaud people who have obviously put time and effort into making their army. I've seen thousands of unpainted imperial guard armies, so when I see one loving converted and painted to look like star wars, I wanna' slap them on the shoulder and say, "thank you for taking the time and effort into making something great." It doesn't matter whether or not it fits the game. What matters is that they are enjoying their hobby, and I try to encourage that, rather than squelch it.

 

When someone says "hey, you shouldn't have done that," it drains the fun out of the hobby for everyone involved. When someone says, "good on ya', mate," it adds to the fun of the hobby.

 

Think of it this way: Which gaming club would you guys rather be a part of? The club that, no matter what you bring in, says, "Oh, you could have done that much better," or the club that, no matter what you bring in, says, "awesome army, pull up a chair."

[WolfLordLars]

How about a mix? :) I like a club that encourages me, even if I cant do something well (painting, in my case) but one that isnt afraid to let me know when my "great idea" really isnt.

 

If someone shows up with an army of bretonnians with bolters, no matter how loveingly converted, no matter how long they spent doing it, it still doesnt fit 40k.

 

People tried to use that same reasoning in a LARP I used to be a part of. Claiming that the effort that goes into creating a suit of armor out of cardboard and duct tape means it should be worth as much as one made out of steel. Sorry that you spent so much time and effort on it, but that just isnt going to work.

 

If someone took the time to make an army of female marines, good for them. However, there are no female space marines in the fluff, and the generally accepted story is that they dont exist. If you insist on doing it anyway, thats your business, as long as you do a good job and dont get pissy about the flak you will receive for it. I will continue to encourage folks to put their time and effort elsewhere.

[Doctor Thunder]

How about a mix? :sick: I like a club that encourages me, even if I cant do something well (painting, in my case) but one that isnt afraid to let me know when my "great idea" really isnt.

Most ideas are terrible. What makes them good or bad is how well they are executed. If you really want to split the difference, then you should help your fellow player execute their idea in a better way, rather than encourage them to discard the idea.

 

Some examples of terrible ideas done well:

 

Werewolf vikings in space (space wolves)

Vampires in space (blood angels)

Batman in space (Night Lords)

Roman legion in space (Ultramarines)

 

 

If someone shows up with an army of bretonnians with bolters, no matter how loveingly converted, no matter how long they spent doing it, it still doesn't fit 40k.

Haven't you ever seen the Imperial guard army that guy made from Bretonnian men-at-arms? That won tons of awards and was featured in white dwarf. It was even used in the 2007 Grand Tournament rules packet as an example of a great conversion.

 

People tried to use that same reasoning in a LARP I used to be a part of. Claiming that the effort that goes into creating a suit of armor out of cardboard and duct tape means it should be worth as much as one made out of steel. Sorry that you spent so much time and effort on it, but that just isn't going to work.

To me, 40K is about having fun, so I can think of no greater sin then intentionally going out of one's way to squash the fun of someone else.