Xenohunters?

[DevianID]

Well from another thread I noticed that we will no longer be getting any codex xenohunters (alienhunters)

 

So, since I had been holding out for them and now there is no reason, I figured out perhaps the next best thing, and wanted some opinions.

 

Basicly, since deathwatch are not valid for 5th ed anymore, why not use codex space marines with Daemonhunter allies?

 

The list would look something like this...

 

HQ: Inq lord with hood and henchmen to taste as the iconic inquisitor

HQ2: Captain or Librarian (The leader of the Deathwatch) A chapter master could be used as a captain with the additional orbital bombardment being pretty fluffy for the inquisition

 

Elite: Sternguard as Deathwatch Kill Teams (Lots of em)

Elite2: Assassian

Elite3: Inquisitor

Elite4: Termies (There are deathwatch termies right? If not then forget these guys)

 

Troop: Spacemarine Scouts as Deathwatch Scouts (their bevvy of special skills and hellfire rounds make them ideal for inqusition advance teams that call down Kill Teams (sternguard) and Responce Teams (vanguard) to do the heavy fighting--infiltrate AND scout? What inquisitor WOULDNT want these guys... and I bet space marines would loan em out en mass as they are 'only rookies' lol... shame regular space marines forget both of these special skills when they get +1WS/BS)

Troop: Allied IST (they hold objectives after the deathwatch are gone)

 

Fast attack: Scout Bikes (for the same reason as space marine scouts... plus with infiltrate + scout they have a first turn charge against those foul xenos)

Fast attack: Land Speeders of all kinds, storm included (Inquisitors would love rare antigrav units I would think, maybe convert them to look like modified xenos vehicles or inquisitor aerospace assets)

Spacemarine Vanguard with jumppacks as Deathwatch Responce Teams with Heroic Intervention (it fits, and with all the scouts the armylist makes deepstriking pretty safe)

 

Heavy Support: Thunderfire (to count as inquisitor-run cannon batteries)

Heavy Support: Whirlwind (Again, I imagine inquisitors love bombing things, considering they get orbital strikes--after all, nuking them from orbit is the only way to be sure lol)

Heavy Support: Landraiders (inquisitors already get them as dedicated transports... it makes sense to me anyway)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Elite4: Termies (There are deathwatch termies right? If not then forget these guys)

 

No, the only Deathwatch squads are Tactical squads. This is related to their 'borrowed' nature and the needs of a Kill-team. An Astarte Chapter would be loath to part with precious TDA suits, much less give them to an Inquisitor. Likewise, in the kind of recon missions Deathwatch Kill-teams are usually involved in, TDA is impractical.

 

The structure of the Deathwatch is as follows;

 

Battle-Brother; A recently promoted Astarte, hailing from the Tactical squads or equivalent (Grey Hunters for SW, Crusader squad for BT).

Captain; A senior Sergeant of a Chapter, given the title to represent his authority in the field (ie second only to an Inquisitor). He is not an actual Captain in his Chapter, because they are too valuable to second to the Ordo Xenos. That said, a Deathwatch Captain is still a formidable warrior and leader, as he has to be.

Librarian; Typically a junior member of the Librarium of a Chapter (again, the more senior Epistolary and Chief Librarian are too valuable to loan out). Again, a very powerful and capable warrior and leader, but not of such importance that the Chapter would be severely damaged by the loss.

 

They don't use armoured vehicles (aside from drop pods or APC's like the Rhino/Razorback), because that encumbers them in the field. Likewise, Kill-teams don't carry anything heavier than a heavy bolter into the field, because their job requires rapid insertion, observation and assassination. They also typically deploy alone and operate alone, only calling in other resources when the taint of the xenos is too great for them to purge.

 

I think Sternguard represent these guys just fine.

Troop: Spacemarine Scouts as Deathwatch Scouts (their bevvy of special skills and hellfire rounds make them ideal for inqusition advance teams that call down Kill Teams (sternguard) and Responce Teams (vanguard) to do the heavy fighting--infiltrate AND scout? What inquisitor WOULDNT want these guys... and I bet space marines would loan em out en mass as they are 'only rookies' lol... shame regular space marines forget both of these special skills when they get +1WS/BS)

Troop: Allied IST (they hold objectives after the deathwatch are gone)

 

The Deathwatch doesn't use Scouts, because they are not full Marines yet, they are still initates and thus not selected.

 

Vanguard as a close-combat Kill-team make sense, due to their customisation. Allied IST's are uncessary, if the Inquisitor can get SM he won't bother with lesser forces. For your mandatory Troops slots take Tactical squads and drop pod them in.

 

Heavy Support: Thunderfire (to count as inquisitor-run cannon batteries)

Heavy Support: Whirlwind (Again, I imagine inquisitors love bombing things, considering they get orbital strikes--after all, nuking them from orbit is the only way to be sure lol)

Heavy Support: Landraiders (inquisitors already get them as dedicated transports... it makes sense to me anyway)

 

Inquisitional forces don't normally use a lot of heavy armour. They are an elite, rapid-response force. APC's and Dreadnoughts are about the heaviest stuff they bring, notwithstanding IG allies. I would actually take Dreadnoughts (take a lone Master of the Forge in HQ to unlock it). Don't worry about a Deathwatch Captain, Inquisitors often command Kill-teams in the field, they only use a Captain when they can't be there in person.

[- 7eAL -]

I believe however that it may be possible for the Deathwatch to have some Terminator armour on-hand. These suits can be loaned to battle-brothers who have had previous experience with the Deathwatch and have earned their own veterancy and their own Terminator Honour. These battle-brothers do not bring their own Terminator armour when they are called to participate in Deathwatch missions, but if the mission requires more armoured support then they would borrow the Terminator armour from the main organization.

 

The system behind Deathwatch vehicles is the same, I believe. The Deathwatch Razorbacks would not be borrowed from a chapter, but rather the main organization has its own Razorbacks and Rhinos that the Deathwatch Marines can drive and ride. Like the Deathwatch Terminator armour, these items are very limited and they are shared by all of the rotating members of the Deathwatch, so you should propose a thematic restriction on your army, like 0-1.

 

Inquisitional forces don't normally use a lot of heavy armour. They are an elite, rapid-response force. APC's and Dreadnoughts are about the heaviest stuff they bring, notwithstanding IG allies. I would actually take Dreadnoughts (take a lone Master of the Forge in HQ to unlock it).

I can't imagine any Space Marine chapter that would willingly allow a Dreadnought to serve in the Deathwatch. Dreadnoughts have very strong bonds with their pilots, so it would be difficult for a Space Marine chapter to spare either of those. In addition, Dreadnought pilots are often a link to a long history of battles, because Dreadnought pilots can have many years more experience than other Space Marines.

 

I am not even certain that many Dreadnought pilots can think coherently enough to actually care about serving in the Deathwatch, or care about what that responsibility means. Fluff does say that Dreadnoughts "hibernate" between conflicts and that it sometimes takes hours to awaken the pilot from this sleep state, so the strongest thoughts of a pilot are of his personal identity, of his chapter responsibilities, and of fighting. There is no real room for a more complicated though like the responsibilities of the Deathwatch.

 

Don't worry about a Deathwatch Captain, Inquisitors often command Kill-teams in the field, they only use a Captain when they can't be there in person.

A Captain might also be necessary when there are more Kill-teams coordinating simultaneously. A larger Deathwatch strike force probably cannot be led by an Inquisitor alone, because he does not have the tactical and strategic training that Space Marines share and so he cannot command a large number of squads with the same level of efficiency like using special hand signals or communication shortforms.

[corncob]

your going to need a marine HQ, you cant induct all the cool stuf from the new codex let alone most of the cool stuf from the old codex. my sugestion is use a marine(death watch) army as your base, I belive you can induct two storm trooper squads as your troops choice as well as one hq(inquisitor) and elite (Assassian) this is Ideal for the most "fluffy" death watch list maby not the most combat effective though.

 

*I belive pedro cantor is an hq choice, If he is you could make a dethwatch character that uses his statline making your sternguard scoring units. With this I wouldent bother taking any tac squad troop choices

[Caddarasvard]

@Corncob... this is EXACTLY what i'm in the process of doing... i plan on having 3 full 10-man kill teams drop-podding with a converted captain representing Cantor and backed up with a couple of speeders... for the troops i intend to run scouts but have them modelled as elite stormtroopers working recon in full camo gear

[DevianID]

for the troops i intend to run scouts but have them modelled as elite stormtroopers working recon in full camo gear

 

That sounds really good but I cant justify their profile... WS3 BS3 S4 T4 is the exact opposite of the statline I was looking for with IST. Is there a xeno race that was subjucated that the profile can represent, like baby ogryns? Or maybe, just maybe, these scouts can represent assassian initiates? Assassian temples obviously enhance their warriors to superhuman levels, and they would of course instill the tennets of stealth and infiltration, and as they are 'raw' after the enhancement they are only ws/bs3... add in a regular assassian to show the final product, thats not too bad!

[Tallthulu]

i am deeply saddened to hear that XH wont be coming, but i must compliment you on such a good plan. in 4E i would run tyranic war vets as death watch in game of apocalypse as i thought this was fitting (especially if they were ever involved with Kryptmann and his work) but sterngaurd work darn well too.

 

and i hesitate to use ben counter as a resource as i know the kind of derision he tends to breed around here, but in the first kill team or death watch novel (name eludes me, had mantis warriors in it) there was a termie that was a part of the kill team.

[corncob]

for the troops i intend to run scouts but have them modelled as elite stormtroopers working recon in full camo gear

 

That sounds really good but I cant justify their profile... WS3 BS3 S4 T4 is the exact opposite of the statline I was looking for with IST. Is there a xeno race that was subjucated that the profile can represent, like baby ogryns? Or maybe, just maybe, these scouts can represent assassian initiates? Assassian temples obviously enhance their warriors to superhuman levels, and they would of course instill the tennets of stealth and infiltration, and as they are 'raw' after the enhancement they are only ws/bs3... add in a regular assassian to show the final product, thats not too bad!

 

just take two IST troops choices from either inquisition codex, with cantor and your stearnguard/deathwatch you'll have no shortage of scoring units

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I believe however that it may be possible for the Deathwatch to have some Terminator armour on-hand. These suits can be loaned to battle-brothers who have had previous experience with the Deathwatch and have earned their own veterancy and their own Terminator Honour. These battle-brothers do not bring their own Terminator armour when they are called to participate in Deathwatch missions, but if the mission requires more armoured support then they would borrow the Terminator armour from the main organization.

 

The system behind Deathwatch vehicles is the same, I believe. The Deathwatch Razorbacks would not be borrowed from a chapter, but rather the main organization has its own Razorbacks and Rhinos that the Deathwatch Marines can drive and ride. Like the Deathwatch Terminator armour, these items are very limited and they are shared by all of the rotating members of the Deathwatch, so you should propose a thematic restriction on your army, like 0-1.

 

The Inquisition doesn't just have Terminator armour lying around. Inquisitors have a hard enough time procuring a suit (has to be custom made or 'borrowed' from a reliquary), and the Chapters would never loan out their 1st Company, in TDA or otherwise. The treaty of the Deathwatch simply requires a tithe of battle-brothers, and I would imagine many Chapters view service in the Inquisition warily. Thus, they send experience Marines (the new fluff of the SM codex has Tac squads as the pinnacle of advancement before induction into the 1st Company). As I said, TDA is also impractical for the recon missions the Deathwatch typically do.

 

I can see the Inquisition having Rhinos and Razorbacks (the Rhino is available to IST's and the Razorback is simply a variant thereof). I doubt an Inquisitor would have problems sourcing APC's, it's the heavier armour that I think is problematic.

 

I can't imagine any Space Marine chapter that would willingly allow a Dreadnought to serve in the Deathwatch. Dreadnoughts have very strong bonds with their pilots, so it would be difficult for a Space Marine chapter to spare either of those. In addition, Dreadnought pilots are often a link to a long history of battles, because Dreadnought pilots can have many years more experience than other Space Marines.

 

I am not even certain that many Dreadnought pilots can think coherently enough to actually care about serving in the Deathwatch, or care about what that responsibility means. Fluff does say that Dreadnoughts "hibernate" between conflicts and that it sometimes takes hours to awaken the pilot from this sleep state, so the strongest thoughts of a pilot are of his personal identity, of his chapter responsibilities, and of fighting. There is no real room for a more complicated though like the responsibilities of the Deathwatch.

 

I was giving an example of the scale ie the Ordo Malleus, I wasn't suggesting the Ordo Xenos uses Dreadnoughts. And a Chapter sure as hell would never let such a treasured veteran and walker out of their grasp.

 

A Captain might also be necessary when there are more Kill-teams coordinating simultaneously. A larger Deathwatch strike force probably cannot be led by an Inquisitor alone, because he does not have the tactical and strategic training that Space Marines share and so he cannot command a large number of squads with the same level of efficiency like using special hand signals or communication shortforms.

 

True, but the whole point of the Deathwatch is that they are self-contained, independant units. The treaty was designed to provide a halfway measure between using inferior commandoes (like the IST's or inducted Guard units) and asking a whole detachment or Company of Astartes to participate. Inquisitors don't trust anyone, and most Chapters are quite suspicious of the Inquisition. Thus, by placing a handful of battle-brothers in the Deathwatch (remember, most Kill-teams are made up of totally different Chapters ie no two battle-brothers are the same, to prevent any insubordination), an Inquisitor gets the very best soldiers in the Imperium under his sole authority, and the Chapter gets back experienced veterans.

 

and i hesitate to use ben counter as a resource as i know the kind of derision he tends to breed around here, but in the first kill team or death watch novel (name eludes me, had mantis warriors in it) there was a termie that was a part of the kill team.

 

Wrong book mate (Counter wrote the Grey Knight trilogy), you are thinking of C.S. Goto. And hell no, I don't get any of this background from his novels, this is all from the Chapter Approved article, and from the Deathwatch PDF off GW's website. I use Black Library selectively, especially when a writer doesn't know his bolter from his chainsword with Space Marines. I'm still waiting for a half-decent book about the Ordo Xenos from Black Library.

[Brother Tyler]

It should be made clear that everyone's "answer" about whether or not the Deathwatch have Dreadnoughts or Terminators or Scouts or whatever is nothing more than an opinion since GW has never given us a canon answer.

[Tallthulu]

right, that was Goto, thanks for the correction. i only read the first one in that series and was not terribly impressed. as to the BL putting out good death watch, i thought that abnett's use of them in eisenhorn was rather tasteful.

[Leethal]

You can help me update Deathwatch for 5th Edition :)

 

Course...It's leaning more towards silly and my Fanfiction thing now.......

 

But I created 2 new Special Ammunition and etc.

 

No True grit for these guys! They have Ultra grit now! :D

[Marid]

About the armor question: remember that both DH and WH Inquisitor Lords have access to Land Raiders. Dreadnoughts are allowed as allied units for both WH and DH armies (that don't have GKs or SOB).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

About the armor question: remember that both DH and WH Inquisitor Lords have access to Land Raiders. Dreadnoughts are allowed as allied units for both WH and DH armies (that don't have GKs or SOB).

 

Well, there are explanations for those.

 

In the case of Landraiders, Inquisitors are pretty much second to the Emperor in power, so if anyone can scrounge up a non-Astartes Landraider it is them. As a personal transport, it is unmatched. However, it's also exceedingly rare, and not very practical in the sort of urban environments Inquisitors tend to operate in (it is an assault vehicle but it's still very big and slow in dense terrain). Hence, the 'standard' options of Rhino and Chimera represent what the Inquisitor has at short-notice; in a full-on assault or battle, a Landraider will probably be transported down from orbit.

 

The Grey Knights don't actually get access to Landraiders persay, it requires a senior member of the Chapter, like a Brother-Captain or Grandmaster, to sanction the deployment of their limited fleet of Landraiders. The reason Grey Knights use them is for their Terminator squads, and even then it's a pretty rare occurrence. More commonly, the Grey Knights arrive, teleport down, kill everything then teleport back. Deployment of Landraiders or the exceptionally rare GK Dreadnoughts is only for larger, longer battles, which are hardly the norm for Grey Knights.

 

In the case of the Allied SM Dreadnought, it is pretty self-explanatory; the Inquisitor can't get Grey Knights, so he gets a small detachment from a nearby Chapter to supplement his forces. However, while the Inquisitor is nominally commanding the Marines, it's more of an uneasy alliance between the Inquisitor and ranking Captain/Chapter Master who sanctioned the deployment. The Marines could very well up and leave once they are satisified the mission is over, regardless of what the Inquisitor wants to do. That is precisely the reason the Deathwatch was founded; to prevent the mixed allegiances of Marines under Inquisitional command interfering with missions.

[DevianID]

I really want to come up with a way to incorporate scouts in a fluffy manner. I take it scouts dont get tithed to deathwatch, and regular guard/IST are not S4 T4. So then what? Abhumans? Some Xeno race? Initiate Assassians (with scout and infiltrate I like this the most, but that would be a BUNCH of assassians--too many to be fluffy?)

[merlonc]

I really want to come up with a way to incorporate scouts in a fluffy manner. I take it scouts dont get tithed to deathwatch, and regular guard/IST are not S4 T4. So then what? Abhumans? Some Xeno race? Initiate Assassians (with scout and infiltrate I like this the most, but that would be a BUNCH of assassians--too many to be fluffy?)

 

Why not guard with better armor than plain carapace. It also gives effective T4 and has limited power assist for ST 4. Xenos guys would have accessto lots of tech that is not common or available elsewhere.

[Legacy40k]

Deathwatch wouldn't have scout, nor would they recruit scouts.

 

If you want a scout squad.. I'd call them elite storm troopers since Xenos Hunters would use storm troopers.. .and just convert them a lot or use different models.