Salamander Marine - would appreciate tips on improving

[Gothical]

I've been in this hobby for some time now, but one of the things I dislike is painting - I love seeing fully painted armies on the table, but as I don't think I can do the miniatures justice (I spend time converting most) I don't like to paint them as I worry about mucking them up. So I decided it was time I got over that block...and painting this miniature sort of depressed me, as it made me realise that I can't paint - so my block was well-founded after all. But, I can only improve and keep painting, and this is what it's all about.

 

Here's a Salamander marine I've painted - and it's near as done as I can make it for the time being (still experimenting with painting flames). I apologise if it's a bit of an eye-sore - some parts of the model went really well (like the Gold chest eagle and getting a smooth Snot Green coat) but then the highlighting and eyes...well, I jsut can't seem to get them right. I had my first attempt at blending the highlights too, mostly on the (model's) right hand side - by the time it came to finishing the left I'd gone back to extreme-highlighting.

 

I would really like some C&C on this model, especially in the form of ways/techniques to improve:

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0243.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0239.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0241.jpg

 

And a close-up of the gold I'm really, really happy with:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0237.jpg

 

Many thanks for any C&C and tips, and I apologise if your eyes are now a little sore!

[nurglespuss]

Hi there!

 

Well firstly take a look around and realise, you paint just fine, nothing wrong with it at all from a 'good looking model' perspective.

 

Plus points: its neat, smooth, looks instantly like a salamander, chest eagle excellent, Eyes good, blended side, very good!

 

Less plussitive points: extreme highlighting is ok (but is imporived with a wash), silver metal work (though lovely and neat) needs a some shading (washes).

 

Once the base is painted, and the gun is on, it'll look just great.

 

Also, remember, painting is a learning curve for all painters, all the time. The one downside with the internet/white dwarf, is that your continually bombarding your self esteem with 'amazingly painted models', a reality check is: most people paint much worse than you, I know, I've seen them.

 

Keep it up!!

[I am Legion]

Looking good pal. I'm a salamander fan, and I've painted a few in my life and I have to say that it looks just fine. If you feel that you need to improve it all you have to do is tidy up the highlights into smoother lines. I see a bit of silver on his abdomen that needs to be fixed. just that litle dot.

 

I'm looking closely at the model and I think that you are painting the highlights on. I like the extreme highlighting but you don't need the darker highlight to come out so far, it should be more of a shadow effect. Even if there is only a bit, you will see it. For the shoulder pad edges I've found that you just need to lightly wetbrush the edges and they will come out straight. Same goes for the inside of the pad rim, you just need to cover it up after with the black afterward.

 

Either way these things take time. It took me nearly 12 years to figure that one out, but now it comes out nice (more work though).

Hope that helps.

[Captain Donahaigh]

Wow, after the buildup, i thought i was going to find a steaming pile of crap (and not the cool Nurgly kind). Instead, I found what i would call a middle to high tabletop quality mini. Can't offer any tips to improve, as you're a better painter than I. seems to me the block you have is a mental one, not a lack of skill. As with all things, a skill has to be used in order to improve it, and if this is the baseline you're starting from I'd say you're in a great place! To paraphrase Nurglespuss from above, most people paint much worse than you; I know, I'm one of them.

[JetfireUK]

I agree with Nurglepuss - don't put yourself down as you have a nice gaming standard figure. An army of figures of this quality would look fearsome across the other side of the table. My comments would be to try and use the edge of the paint brush when doing the fine highlights on the shoulder pads and perhaps wipe the brush a couple of times to get excess paint off before doing the fine highlights. Other than that I'd be very happy to have that mini in my armoury.

[Pyriel]

Looking good dude. Nothing wrong with them, they look exactly like my first marines.

Things that can improve are more layers of highlite but thats overkill on rank and filers.

Any yes, red eye lenses look a damn deal better with green armour then of yellow.

 

 

Here are some pics of my rank and file marines (I use a tad darker snot green base to get a more gothic looking depth).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...iatures/Mp1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...iatures/Mf1.jpg

 

This is the best picture of how they actually look on the tabletop and a perfect example of what I mean with darker snot green that looks more gothic and menacing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...urmark-head.jpg

 

Some more with different light settings:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...es/DSC02987.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...es/DSC02995.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...es/DSC02983.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...es/DSC02959.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Pyr...es/DSC03002.jpg

[Gothical]

Thanks for the kind words!

 

They say everyone's their own worst critic - it doesn't help that my LGS has 4 golden-daemon winners making everyone else's work look =][=censored=][=. They make all the local awards for best painted figure/squad/army nigh-on impossible to get hold of. Also I'm a bit of a perfectionist, it's a family problem (especially when you're bombarded my GD-quality minis when you play).

 

blended side, very good!

 

you're the first person to be able to "see" the blending. Was my fist attempt at it, so I'm fairly proud, but I had some real problems with the Scorpion Green blending (it's why I stopped on the other side): I watered down the Scorpion Green (I did actually water down all the Snot Green and Metallics as well), but found that the coverage was non-existant - ie, I just got a "wet streak" with a few blobs of pigment in it instead of a line of thin paint. That kneepad was painted about 4 times thanks to this. Was this because I watered down too much, didn't pick up enough on the brush, or it's a bad quality pot?

 

extreme highlighting is ok (but is imporived with a wash)

This has been recommended to me on another board. I had issues with Green Ink before, in that it came out really blotchy. Was this just because I hadn't watered it down enough?

 

silver metal work (though lovely and neat) needs a some shading (washes).

It originally had a Devlan Mud was. Will have to buy a black wash (I've run out of black ink), and mabe give it a layer in between the chainmail-mithril silver (previous wash was between boltgun-chainmain).

 

tidy up the highlights into smoother lines

I really struggle with extreme highlighting. My Guard were easy, being drybrushed (+camo) and washed. Smooth plates are new to me, and so is extreme-highlighting.

 

painting the highlights on. I like the extreme highlighting but you don't need the darker highlight to come out so far

I painted on the lighter highlights, but the shadows are from base-coating in Orkhide Shade and then black-lining when I slipped over a line. Will look into making the shadows thinner.

 

just need to lightly wetbrush the edges and they will come out straight. Same goes for the inside of the pad rim, you just need to cover it up after with the black afterward.

Hmm, will try that out on the next model. I have been using the tip of the brush so far - the tip got a nice, thin line (when the paint actually was paint not water), but it was a little wavy (having to stop every mm to get more paint as coverage was going and the fact it seems I alter the pressure I use when painting like that); so I then tried using the side of the brush - wich resulted in a very neat line, but it was really thick (covering a large chunk of the armour plate as well as the edge!). Would really like some ideas on how to improve this (be it in improving brush control or anything else).

 

Here are some pics of my rank and file marines (I use a tad darker snot green base to get a more gothic looking depth).

I like the darker colour - do you think some Green Ink would darken the scheme a bit? I don't want to change the overall colour of the actual mini's - I got such a smooth coat of Snot Green I'm gonna keep going with it, but the more "gothic" look you've got going there is ace.

 

 

Once more, thanks for the kind words. Will have a bash with some of the suggestions here on another model, and post some pics up. Oh, and I'll be back with my first attempt at painting flames too.

[nurglespuss]

Thrakka green wash will really suprise you, its an amazing green-blender. As for wet blending/blending, your better off using a piant drying retardent/flow improver than water alone, as this will help spread the pigment. Thrakka green wash is great, as it doesnt require watering down (in fact it reacts negatively) but dries smooth and clear. try mixing 50/50 snot/scorpion for first highlight, 20/70 for second, and pure fore very edges.

 

Keep it up!

[Gothical]

Here's a mini with a Dark Green Ink wash applied (arm, head and shoulder pad). I quite like how I managed to get relatively smooth highlights on the hand. I didn't have any Thraka Green lying around, and will be a while until I can get to a hobby shop, so used DGI.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0254.jpg

 

And here's a side-by-side comparisson (washed on left, unwashed on right):

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0255.jpg

 

Do you think the wash is a good addition, or should I keep it "clean" (sorry Ice, I'd already washed one model for show, so went ahead with photographing it)?

 

 

And here's my first ever attempt at painting flames. In the pics it doesn't look too bad - I need to work on the shape of the flames themselves, but IRL the colours are quite blotchy (but perhaps this adds to the "realism" look)?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0257.jpg

 

C&C on the flames would be appreciated!

[I am Legion]

Your highlights are looking great. you have the two straight lines on each shoulder pad rim, and it looks perfect. The green is looking good. I'd be glad to play against your army. Keep it up.

[nurglespuss]

Yep the wash works wonders :>

 

And the flame colour is perfect, like you say, just need to practice the shape a bit.

 

You may find it easier to paint the flame colours, then draw a faint pancil outline, then fill in the black parts.

[Wadey13]

Haha Interrogator Chaplain Adam, that model is great!!

 

Pyriel those are bloody amazing!! I've been considering starting Sallies for the new Codex and you've just made up my mind!! Please tell me how the hell you did that, everything from the tone of green and highlights to the flaming helmet decorations is just beast :(

[Gothical]

It's been suggested to me to do layered highlights.

 

Since I don't want to have to mix colours too much if I can help it, do you think goblin Green will be a good transitional highlight between the Snot and the Scorpion? Or should I just 50/50 Snot:Scorpion to tie everything in neatly [and then do other mixes on Terminators and more elaborate pieces]?

 

I'm hoping that a layer + wash technique can mimick the blending I tried to do - I'm still fairly proud of it (I guess I shouldn't have gone back and extreme-highlighted it, wouldn't need to had I not thinned my paint so much I think). do you think I should keep going with the "blending" (on the larger highlight areas, and then simple extreme highlights on the smaller detail plates) or do everything in the 2-or-so-layer idea? Either way will have that thin-ink Glaze applied, I'm happy about how that came out (and the models will get a gloss varnish too, I think).

[skeletay]

I think they look great. Don't worry about being as good as the golden demon guys, just try to make every model you do a little better than your last one.

[Solun Decius]

I'll have to aggree with most posters here. There is nothing wrong with those minis. They have nice sharp highlights that will stand out on the battlefield and you've given the detail attention too.

For rank and file troops this is good quality and will look good in whole squads. It also looks pretty good upclose even though all the lines aren't perfectly straight. The wash actually helped that alot so the one in the right on the last photos is very nice looking from any point of view.

 

The eye lenses are a bit flat. I'd do them with a darker color first and then highlight to yellow towards the center. It'll give a shine and a "gaze", almost like a pupil but not as dificult to do as "real" eyes. Even from a distance, well painted eyes can make all the difference for a tabletop model.

[Pyriel]

I like the darker colour - do you think some Green Ink would darken the scheme a bit? I don't want to change the overall colour of the actual mini's - I got such a smooth coat of Snot Green I'm gonna keep going with it, but the more "gothic" look you've got going there is ace.

I use a coat of snot green ink (out of production however) and am vary careful not to have it pool up.

 

The flames on your shoulderpad can be shaped by simply painting black around them.

 

Pyriel those are bloody amazing!! I've been considering starting Sallies for the new Codex and you've just made up my mind!! Please tell me how the hell you did that, everything from the tone of green and highlights to the flaming helmet decorations is just beast smile.gif

Fun that you like them.

For standard marines I use black coat, 2 layers of snot then paint all the cracks and lines of the armour in black as well as joints.

Highlites are done in goblin and scorpion green.

Then apply a wash of snot green ink and be careful not to pool it.

Afterwards brush the joints in light gray, paint he eyes in 2 shades of red (gore - blood) and add honour markings like the helmet flames.

About 40 of my standard mariens have honour marks added in this way, either helmets, hands, feet, legs or torsos and all have shoulderpad flames.

 

I paint the base of the flames in white, as accurately as I can.

Then from bottom up I paint in light yellow - yellow - light orange - orange - dark orange - light red - red - dark red - gore red.

After this is done I repair the flame outlines and create a thin line around the flames in black.

 

The result was meant to be sprayed with a matte varnish as the ink makes it look really shiny but then I said to myself, hey, they look like tehy are fighting in rain and I left the varnish be.

[spikyjames]

Hi

 

i agree with all thats been said here already, i think the paints all in the right place and the mini is looking the part, it's painted to a good standard.

 

the one thing i would suggest would be to water down your paints, if you do already then add more, this helps massively with smoothness and blending highlights in. for highlights i usually water down my paints to the consistency of milk if that helps.

 

hope that makes sence.

 

James

[I am Legion]

Ahh spikyjames is a fellow airbrush artist I see.

 

Hey lets see some more of your salamanders Interrogator-Chaplain Adam. I really want to do some salamnders for when this codex comes out. So I like seeing how people paint them.

[Gothical]

lets see some more of your salamanders Interrogator-Chaplain Adam.

 

Well, as it so happens, here's a second one!

the one thing i would suggest would be to water down your paints

 

I already do - but I'm having issues getting the correct consistency. I've hear the milk thing before, and it's something I try to aim for, but at the moment it seems I either get the paint too thick still, or so thin that I get little more than a slightly-green damp patch on the model.

 

 

This one was painted with pure table-top in mind, so I exaggerated the highlights. Though it looks good at a distance, I think I'll try out some neat, fine highlights on the next one (whether I'll be successful or not is another matter)

 

 

These are some of the stages of painting I went through, so that you can hopefully see what I'm on about. The finished model will follow shortly, I just have to do the Gold metallics (though it looks a little naff as I ruined one leg by somehow managing to stick my thumb in the drying glaze - without realising it until just now.

 

Un-glazed, with pronounced highlights to look good at a distance (and I slipped so simply widened them than go back and neaten them :))

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0264.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0267.jpg

 

And this is with a glaze, to soften the nature of the previous highlights.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0270.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0271.jpg

 

 

A completed pic of the whole model (and the thumb-print) will follow shortly - and showing it both up-close and at a distance, but until it appears, do you think I am on the right track - is this mini better than the last one, and can you spot areas that could do with improvement?

 

Obviously neatening/using thinner strokes on the highlights and working from a single-point lightsource would help - and I'll have a go on the next Marine, but what else can you suggest?

 

I would also really like some help on how to bring broad, flat areas (the large greaves, the forearms, the chest) to life - I tried to feather the 50/50 mix to add a bit of definition, but it got lost in the highlighting/glazing - I think because I went over it in neat scorpion green, and also because I can't feather properly (this may have something to do with the fact the paints aren't thinned correctly, according to a bloke I was asking today).

 

 

Ok, maybe I'm not a hopeless painter, but I would certainly like to improve, and I would appreciate it if people could keep commenting/criticising on my work - I don't get to the LGS at the moment (hours at work make it difficult, and it's a commute to the cities) so don't have anyone local to ask for pointers.

[I am Legion]

I think It's great. Like you said clean up the light green highlight on the legs, and it'll look great! You're on your way to becoming a great painter. And it's good that you play VS amazing painters. because that work rubs off on you after a while. all I play against are half painted nids, unpainted guard/marines, and quarters as orks or tau..............

 

keep up the good work.

[Muskie]

Your model looks fine. If anything I would tell you to get a style. Once you get the clean, standard edge highlights, try to personalize your models.

 

You need work on the flames. Go read my Hakanor's Reavers tutorial. That was a tough insignia to paint, you'd think, but I tried to do it so others could follow... It reveals some secrets to easier flames...

 

I paint good flames, always have, just squiggle the brush, don't try to be exact, just let your brush coast if you're trying to outline. I'm a big user of washes and glazes, I just feel it is a good way to do blending, but you can also use the old style of just slowly mixing in more white or in your case yellow...

 

There is no right way to paint. I don't use a lot of elaborate techniques but I get good results and my models are recognizeable and unique. Don't be boring and blue...

[Gothical]

Muskie, where can I find that tutorial? It in the librarium?

 

Been practicing, and here's the start of another attempt. It's basic green for now, but I tried thinning the paints, but not as much as I was before, and making sure I wiped the excess off the brush on a piece of paper towel (not so much as to cause a drybrush, but to take the 'bulge'/'bubble' out of the bristles).

 

But I'm not sure if I didn't thin the paint enough - this covered in 2 coats as opposed to the 4 beforehand. It also needs some cleaning up of the black lining too, forgot about that!

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/flat1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/flat3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/flat2.jpg

 

What do you think - not too thick?

 

So obviously I've got to highlight it. I'm going to try to start with a 50/50 Snot/Scorpion green, then edge-highlight with Scorpion. Still not sure entirely how to end up getting the highlights look slick, but will have a play around. But any ideas how to highlight the large, plain greaves (where before I tried to blend - utterly poorly - to stop it looking so 'flat')? They look a little bland/unfinished without any highlighting (same with the round bits of the arms), but I can't think of a decent way to make them 'pop'.

 

 

Oh, and here's the older model with some old GW "Clear Varnish" I found - do you think the look is good, or should I try to find something more matte?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/varnished2.jpg

 

I think it looks OK, but it has given a slightly bobbly texture, and I think it's shown up how jerky the highlights were. Thoughts?

[Muskie]

First of all I've painted a Sali or two in my time. I also don't claim to be an expert on codex scheme, but you should strive for coolness or at least tabletop appearence. It is only in some tourneys and personal pride that painting really matters. But people should have pride in their workmanship and strive to improve.

 

Here is my soon to be legendary Hakaanor's Reavers tutorial, it includes two ways to do lava/flames.

 

I painted up an Inquistor scale guy, they have really big flat plates. It isn't my best work, but it is green and has flames.

 

You gotta remember scales, you can paint little half circles on flat parts to make them more interesting, I've painted all sorts of crap on my green models, see this landraider.

 

I also painted flames, really good flames on my AoBR Nob entry.

[lunchb0x]

my tips :

 

Slow down a bit more...it will help in getting smoother lines.

 

Make sure your paints a bit watered down, get a retarding agent or whatever they call it...it will help it go on smoother.

 

When applying highlights try and have it be where the light would actually strike the model vs any hard surface like you have now...It can speed up painting highlights if they are applied in the right places. ;)

 

look at his image :

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33/Treadhead2005/Space%20Marines%20-%20Salamanders/IMG_0271.jpg

 

Look where you have highlights on the thigh and chest for example...bolter would cover that so no real need for them to be there.

 

I know it might go against alot of guys here, but glue the bolter on and paint what you can see...seriously..speeds up time...whats the point of painting the back side of the bolter when no one can see it anyways...thats what I have always done with my models put em together and paint em...sure it can be annoying to get those spots you can see that are hard to reach but either way it really helps you figure our where the light would be coming from and where the shadows are cast.

 

Granted this example is black...but check out lower amount of highlights still achieves a good look. My only painted Death model :tu: took me about an hour to paint.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/lunchb0x/deathwatchfirsttimepaintingblack-1.jpg

 

Hope fully that helps...I havnt seen my pic in forever...man I sucked back then. :lol:

[Gothical]

Thanks for the link, Muskie, good read.

 

lunchb0x, thanks for the tips on the highlights. Will try that out later today.

 

A random thought regarding highlights:

 

To build up from the 50/50 Snot/Scorpion mix to pure Scorpion Green, do you think I should layer (and attempt to feather the edges of) of the mix into the Snot Green basecoat, then extreme highlight with Scorpion, or just extreme highlight with the mix and then go over the very edges with Scorpion?

 

I know doing the former would be like trying to run before I can walk, but I'm not convinced I can paint thin enough lines (Scorpion Green seems to be a very...awkward paint to thin down, any amount of water seems to over-thin it - as I paint a line it seems to separate into pigment and water, no matter how little I thin it down) to do the latter, simpler method.