HELP ME ! game vs Deathwing

[sumeet]

Hey guys/girls.

Havnt played a game of 40k in ages just sort of learning rules again now, im goin 2 have agame against one of the guys that works there and his deathwing. i Have an old SW army from 2001. About 2000 points worth. were gnna have a 1500 point game. i want to use a single sqaud of WG termies just to prove ap point. What else could i use to beat him. Ive read around and out numbering him with BC is the genreal concencus. i do have a land raider for this. ut im pretty much flummoxed on how esle to beat him. Any1 here notched up some DW scalps.......

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

1) spelling, work on it a little bit.

2) welcome back to the fang, grab an ale and lets talk.

 

BC's in a land raider is a good choice (even better if its a crusader) but if you relly want to have WG terminaters I'd put those in there instead since we cant teleport (personally I'd leave these at home in a 1,5 game). Next put plasma weapons in your grey hunter squads and Plasma pistols power weapons and melter guns in your Blood Claws. And any other ap2 and power weapons you can think to add.

 

As for tactics, shoot, shoot, charge with the blood claws and shoot some more. secure objectives and teach those dress wearing pansies how its done.

[sumeet]

k, plasma is the root to take. If thats the case how bout long fangs with PC's and ML's. or will they just soak up points like the termies.

[barek]

1) spelling, work on it a little bit

 

Idem. Please do. My head hurts.

 

Don't use ML unless in combination with lascannons. ML alone don't work very well against termi's who will get their 2+ save. You need lascannon's. Take two, in combination with ML / HB's. Try to get good cover and firing lanes. Sometimes my LF do great, sometimes they do absolutely nothing or dy first, or can't see anything to shoot. Move them, and lose another turn of shooting. Also: LF are a very expensive choice. And even lascannons have a hard times killing land raiders.

 

IMHO the most importent asset DW has is the ability to walk away from you while shooting.

 

If he uses Azrael with chappy and DW squad in a Raider, then that squad / vehicle has to die first. You really don't want him to hit your lines.

 

Edit 1: As for tactics: "As for tactics, shoot, shoot, charge with the blood claws and shoot some more. Secure objectives and teach those dress wearing pansies how its done."

 

Edit 2: B.T.W. You hit each other on a 3+. So Blood Claws are a good choice. But don't get cheezy please. I love my Hunters.

[Brother SRM]

If you are taking Wolf Guard Terminators, load up on some combi weapons if you can. Plasma and melta fire, even if it's just one turn's worth, is always great against terminators.

Remember, you will have him outnumbered nomatter what. Death Wing termies only have 5 man squads, 6 if an IC is attached. Overrun him with blood claws, and they won't stand a chance!

And vindicators will completely destroy him. Just watch out for those power and chain fists!

[sumeet]

cheers for the help guys. appreciate it. Ill try not to lose, but somehow i think thats exactly what's going to happen. lol.

Just one last question. Do Space wolves generally tend to lose against deathwing armys? Do you guys have any joy against them. What are your personal experiences fighting them?

[barek]

First ten times were very bad. But we didn't know the rules and played 4th edition. So we played last man standing contest which went on for hours and 20 turns, deployed at the short table edges (don't!), deployed terrain in foulty ways (no cover, terrain at board edges) so I lost a lot. But last 5 'last man standing games', I won 4. And I didn't use bloodclaws or land speeders. But if your long range fire AP2 fire power dies, you die, unless you're close. It usually takes a Grey Hunter squad with HQ to take out a DW squad. If this DW squad has a chappy, you need two. So be sure to take plasma to thin the DW squad. If your GH squads are equiped with CCW & BP, charge. If not: take the charge. Take a Vindi. Take a Ven Dread with plasma cannon or lascannon. Take 2 BC squads, 2 GH squads. You need mobility. Be carefull AND agressive with Rhino's, or use droppods or a Raider. You will outnumber him, which will scare him, use this.

[Vassakov]

Right, as someone who plays against DW/DA in general about 40% of the time, allow me to give you a lowdown on them.

 

Firstly, our Termies are hands down better. They are more flexible, more resilient, better looking and our characters make mincemeat out of theirs. They have only two things going for them - they are cheaper and have DW assault.

 

If you are playing against a pure DW army, you should win easily. Up to half his squads will DS in the first turn, the rest enter play as per normal reserves.

 

THE KEY THING AGAINST THIS KIND OF ARMY: MUTUAL SUPPORT.

 

Make sure no unit, however expendable (I'm kidding, we have no expendable units... ;) ) is unsupported. A neat trick is perhaps to leave a unit of poor, defenceless LF right in the centre of the board, with LC or PC. Then stick a LRC with BC and an IC on one flank, maybe with some GH's and then a Dread and some Bikes on the other flank. (A Vindicator is also a lot of fun) Then try to make sure your opponent goes first.

 

Hopefully, they will commit the majority of the DWA Termies to one unit, and preferably the LF's. Then, on your turn, if you are good with guesstimating distances you should be able to bring most of your army to bear on around half of his. The remainder of the game should be clearing up.

 

Now, in a 1500pts battle, pure DW will not be able to field more than 4-5 squads plus Belial. That means first turn firepower will be, at worst 24 Bolter shots and 3 Assault Cannons/Heavy Flamers/Missiles. And it'll probably be around half that as they'll take some TH&SS/LC TDAs. So you should outgun them. As has been said, Plasma and Melta will go straight through them. Vindicators and LC Preds also do the job.

 

Now to combat. This is, frankly a joke. As the worst case scenario when fighting in CC against them is 5xTLC (as they'll strike simultaneously with you). If it's mostly PF's/TH&SS you should be able to waste them in CC before they lift their fists. A largeish pack of BC's backed up by an IC will eat whole units for breakfast.

 

Unit's to take - Plasma/Melta and Power Weapon armed Grey Hunters; Blood Claws (and BC Bikers); LC Preds; LRC/LR; Dreadnoughts; Vindicators; Land Speeders.

 

Units/Equipment to avoid - Any gun you're paying extra points for that isn't AP2/1. Flamers, Heavy Bolters, anything like that. They'll just shrug it off.

- WG Bodyguard - too expensive. Seriously, maximise you're numbers as every one of these guys you lose will hurt. A decent geared WGTDA squad will cost in the region of a decent sized BC pack and and a small GH squad. Take them instead.

Predator Drestructors/Whirlies/A Redeemer/for the firepower issues above.

 

Hope this helps, and good hunting!

[BloodHawk]

Honestly, terminators are a joke against Space Wolves in most cases. Every time I have ever played terminators, I have laughed as they were chopped to pieces by my IC's. Frost blades on your characters is a must, this will allow you to kill 2-3 a turn on the charge. The rest of your squad should mop up the rest.

 

We can finish Termies easily in CC, however our shooting is extremely effective as well. I generally run my GH with 2x PP and a Plasma gun. That's 4 plasma shots a turn @ 12 inches. That will absolutely tear them to shreds. At this point, you just need to get close to them.

[Wolf89]

I suggest trying out the new drop pods against this list, you drop down with a few GH units with 2 PP, plasma\meltagun and unleash hell, combi melta and plas also welcome to the WGL's.

 

A ven. dread with a plasma cannon is also a nice touch and he'll fair decent in combat as well.

 

The best thing though is masses of blood claws, they'll soak up a lot of firepower, and in the charge (or even counter) they'll overwhelm the small terminator squads and win combat.

[barek]

Yes, yes. yes. VERY good advice there mr Vassakov. And helpfull. Thank you. I saw some faults in my gameplay right away. I must say again: be carefull with Azrael plus chappy plus CC squads. But I would not expect to see this combination in a 1500 p. game. And I forgot to tell that my regular opponent doesn't use a pure Deathwing. It's two raiders (regular and crusader), Azarel, chappy, dreadnaught, Vindi and termi's. And he doesn't use DW assault, and I have never used blood claws.

[sumeet]

WOW, feeling a lot more confident now guys, this info is priceless, especially Vassakov. Cheers dude. I will defo dig up and plasma and melta SW's lying around. I pretty much have most of these thing except the vindi. I just used to collect for the models and the painting and didnt really game alot, however thats something im going to put right this time around. This thread has been really helpful. Im sure it will annoy the crap out of the DA lot!!

[Vassakov]

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but DW are fearless? That means lot's more saves when they get trumped in CC. Really, really helps. And they can't sweeping advance either.

 

Of course, most of this goes out the window if it isn't pure DW. Be warned.

 

Still, I'm glad you found my advice useful.

[WolfLordLars]

I have yet to loose against DW. One of my good friends and a guy I have more or less been playing since I was new uses Deathwing. We manage to draw each other in every tournament we enter.

 

Leave the Land Raider at home. In fact, leave almost every tank at home, save maybe a Rhino or two. Drop pods are your friends, as are bikes. Do one squad of terminators in a pod (or otherwise mobile), I suggest a WGBL w/AC and his Wolf Guards (3 ACs in a single pod is fun). Load up on BC's and GH's. No Jet Packs, no Long Fangs (not at 1500).

 

Post a list and I would be happy to review it. Anything we can do to help you pound the stuffing out of those dress-wearing nancy-boys.

[Dreadnought Baraziel]

One golden nugget of advice:

 

Bow down and die! You will not beat the Deathwing! Wanna know why?

 

>cough, Deathwing Assault, cough<

 

Mwahahahaha!

 

P.S. WE do NOT wear skirts! They are robes! At least we don't chase cats!

[Ullr Direfang]

One golden nugget of advice:

 

Bow down and die! You will not beat the Deathwing! Wanna know why?

 

>cough, Deathwing Assault, cough<

 

Mwahahahaha!

 

P.S. WE do NOT wear skirts! They are robes! At least we don't chase cats!

 

 

ROLF!!!! sorry this really made me laugh. i haven't lost to DW with my SW nor my IG. yes i said imperial guard, i have play three different DW guys with the IG and lets just say, i only lost 17 guardsman (thank you cover saves).

 

as for how i run my SW against DW, it has all been said, no use repeating it again.

 

UD

 

Edit: P.S. your right you don't wear skirts, you wear dresses (which are worse).

[WolfLordLars]

Oh, leave the dress-wearing half-wit alone. I mean, he is clearly playing pick-up games against the local 10-year old Ultramarine player... thats the only way I can see him doing well at all with his army. Maybe, after the new SM codex comes out and the kid beats him down a time or two, he might try to ebay off his army and pick up a real one, like the Wolves.

 

:D ;)

[Valhalla]

1) spelling, work on it a little bit.

2) welcome back to the fang, grab an ale and lets talk.

 

BC's in a land raider is a good choice (even better if its a crusader) but if you relly want to have WG terminaters I'd put those in there instead since we cant teleport (personally I'd leave these at home in a 1,5 game). Next put plasma weapons in your grey hunter squads and Plasma pistols power weapons and melter guns in your Blood Claws. And any other ap2 and power weapons you can think to add.

As for tactics, shoot, shoot, charge with the blood claws and shoot some more. secure objectives and teach those dress wearing pansies how its done.

 

Amen, Reverend

[Wolf89]

I just had a gentleman come up to the local store a few days ago asking for some advice on marines. He had already bought every SM codex and variant, he loves the fluff, but most of all, he loves dark angels!

 

He asked me about painting tips, modeling advice, the works, this guy wanted to get into this hobby bad, and he wanted to do things right the first time.

 

I began to explain all the differences between the other armies (he was debating between DA's BA's and BT's) I steered him clear of the BA's who, lets face it, lost a lot of their "bite". He really liked the DA's and really wanted a Deathwing army, he questioned as to their tactics, paint scheme, everything, he didn't want to have to ask anything else and just wanted to go right home and punch out an army.

 

I explained to him how (facing the majority of opponents up at the store) he'd be better off fielding a Ravenwing list (which is a list that's also been getting at least top 5 the last few tournaments and seems to be the best DA list out there currently... at least against the opponents where we play). He didn't want them however, and decided he'd rather go into the game for the Deathwing army because how much he liked them.

 

He proceeded to loose every game with a slaughterfest today after facing some regular (10-years old - 14 years I'd say) players. He was then so disgruntled he picked up a ravenwing box and (after borrowing some proxies from me and using a list I helped create) won against the same players at the same points.

 

Deathwing lost their functionality a while ago, especially when they took away their drop pods. My buddy was furious when he found out his Forge World pods were useless for his beloved army and he proceeded to switch to vanilla marines... and now, here comes my favorite part, the new C:SM doesn't allow Terminators Drop pods either. I then proceeded to offer him an extra space wolf codex I had saying, "how about you try my wolves? they can still use the pods... for now...".

[WolfLordLars]

I originally wanted to play Deathwing as well. I thought terminators were AWESOME! Liked the bone-white paint scheme and everything that went with them. But, my buddy owed me some money and gave me his Space Wolves to pay it off. I tried to sell them, didnt find a buyer, so decided to give it a try. That got me hooked.

 

Almost went to Deathwing with 4th ed, as a second army. Decided on necrons instead. Now, looking at the deathwing, I am glad I didnt bother. My buddy who plays them hasnt been fielding them much anymore, doing 1000 Sons instead.

 

SM Terminators cant use pods? thats lame.. but good to know. If they take our pods, they will have to give us teleport (I hope).

[Wolf89]

SM Terminators cant use pods? thats lame.. but good to know. If they take our pods, they will have to give us teleport (I hope).

 

That's probably why we get to keep our pods, they don't want to let us have teleport... :D

 

Necrons is such an easy army to sell...

 

Customer: "I want to field an easy to play army, that will still be competitive, and also easy to paint."

 

Me: "Do you know how to use a spray can?"

 

Customer: "Yes, why?"

 

Me: "NECRONS!"

 

It's sad that they messed up deathwing so much that their players are resorting to playing 1ks... -_-

 

I really hope they don't get rid of our termies pods... I really hope.

[WolfLordLars]

Yup, probably the easiest to sell. Stats like Marines, WBB rolls, easy to paint, and cheap to collect. I got tired of folks refusing to play me because I never lost (not bragging, I never lost a game with them... ever) and sold them.

 

Hey, DA or 1ks, I hit him on 3+ regardless... :lol:

[Ullr Direfang]

not to try and keep this on a different topic, but if they take away our termies in DP, it would be like them saying, "sorry SW have to land to go into battle, they would never land on planet in DPs."

 

i personally would look at them and say "did you take a stupid pill this morning or is it just an ID-TEN-T problem?"

 

but for now it looks like we still get them, so..... i am going to keep dropping 3 AssC in the backfield and keep pouring on the hurt.

[WolfLordLars]

i am going to keep dropping 3 AssC in the backfield and keep pouring on the hurt.

 

Amen brother! Nothing says luvin like 3 AC's up the.. *ahem*

[Dreadnought Baraziel]

Hah, after looking at this thread since my last post, I feel slightly annoyed. Deathwing are not totally useless. Just because one player lost his first few games with a totally new army does not mean a list is unplayable. If you have a look at my sig you will see my win/loss ratio. Deathwing are a highly successful army for me, whooping Necrons butt a hell of a lot. Necrons are extremely easy to beat, if you know how.

 

P.S. They aren't dresses either! They are robes!