Being out Ranged

[a-nesuto]

hi everyone ;) im a new 40k player thats having a little problem dealing with range. i did pretty good in my first few games(3win 0Loss 3draws) but in the last 2 games(Loss) and the draws, ive been shot up by Ork big shoota's, Tyranid Barbed strangler's and my brothers Havoc's :P

 

here's my army ive been using...

 

Canoness(BW, BP, BoSL) 81 points

 

9 Sisters+VSS(CCW, BP) 142 points

Flamer, Heavy Flamer

 

9 Sisters+VSS(CCW, BP) 142 points

Flamer, Heavy Flamer

 

9 IST+ Vet(PW, Hell Pistol) 135 points

Flamer, Grenade Launcher

 

500 points

4 Faith points

31 Models

[Melissia]

Personally, I'd toss out the ISTs (they aren't really all that great) and instead spend the points on rhinos for your sisters.

 

 

Say, something like this:

 

Canoness: 100 pts

--Blessed Weapon, Book of St. Lucius, Jump Pack

 

Battle Sister Squad: 200 pts

-9 Sisters

---Flamer, Heavy Flamer

-Veteran Sister Superior

---BP+CCW, BoSL

-Rhino

---Smoke Launchers

 

Battle Sister Squad: 200 pts

-9 Sisters

---Flamer, Heavy Flamer

-Veteran Sister Superior

---BP+CCW, BoSL

-Rhino

---Smoke Launchers

 

 

One less scoring units, but you can close the distance faster and have the rhinos take a few hits. It also leaves the Canoness to be somewhat more useful as well. I can't guarentee this build is ideal, but for a five hundred points game, I'd say it's not that bad.

[Marid]

Mobility?

 

You could:

Trade one squad for two Rhinos.

Trade one squad for five Seraphim.

Trim the flamer-IST squad down to six and pack them in an Immolator. Want some burna, boyz?

[Chengar Qordath]

My personal reccomendation would be to scrap the IST squad and replace it with an Exorcist; that gives nice long-range firepower that you can find all kinds of uses for.

[Lady_Canoness]

at 500 pts, why not throw in some retributors... not all of them need to carry HBs - 2 HBs work just fine in a 500pt game.

 

Take an Excorsist at 500pts and you will be hated by your club... don't do it.

[Melissia]

Hey, it's the Sisters' only good long ranged anti-tank (and it's not even that long ranged), people shouldn't complain THAT much about it. It's not like we have missile launchers, lascannons, plasma cannons, or even plasma guns to use instead. Or Lance weapons. Or the Gauss special rule. Or anyone with Tank Hunters. Or Rail Guns. Or Battle Cannons. Or Rokkit Launchas, or Snazzguns, or Zzap guns.

 

If people complain about the Exorcist, be kind to them and point out how silly they're being.

[Eddie Orlock]

It's not that it's 'busted' it's the idea that your bringing the equivelant of an MBT to what should be a small skirmish of light forces. 'Course, I'd also roll my eyes at Havocks in such a tiny game, but there you go.

 

I might take some pattern of Immolator or 'Phim, maybe even do what I could to litter the table with opaique, LOS blocking, terrain to show them the folly of their ways for relying of big guns.

[Melissia]

Good then, you shouldn't hate the fact that he wants to bring big guns to fight an opponent with big guns :eek

[Eddie Orlock]

Where did I say I 'hated it', only that I found it somewhat inappropriate.

[Marid]

One thing we didn't ask you is what other models do you have available? It looks like you may have a starter army based on the guns in your IST squad. If you need to buy something how much would you care to spend? An Immolator model can be made to be converted to a Rhino on a whim too.

 

I'm not that hot on the Exorcist idea for the reason that it still leaves your troops as footsloggers. Now if your group is planning to go to 1,000-point games buying an Exorcist makes sense. Unfortunately they are currently $50 and may be a lot more expensive in a few days depending on what GW does with the price hikes.

[mercenary]

Well you already have some decent advice, most of what you can do depends on whether you are following the force organisation chart. If you are, then you have precious little points left for much else once your HQ and troop choices are filled. Just some sugestions

 

Rhinos are really a must if you are running Heavy Flamer and Flamer combo, as in a footslogging squad you are unable to achieve optimum template placement. It does favour a more aggresive play style, but the strength of sisters is in mid range fire fights, so if that is your thing run with it. If you are following the standard force organisation chart then you have really only the points for a kitted canoness and two troop choices.

 

If you are runing a footlsogging list drop your HF + F, and beef the squad a bit to twelve if you can. An exorcist will enable you to pound your enemy from afar, which is never a bad thing.

 

If you are after a gun line approach, and not constrained by the standard organisation chart, then multiple small celestian squads with the cheap heavy bolter option supported by an Exorcist, can deal some healthy amounts of damage from afar.

 

Anyhow that is my 2 cents

[Toogeloo]

Take an Excorsist at 500pts and you will be hated by your club... don't do it.

QFT

 

I played a guy a 600 point match on a 4x4 board. I fielded every marine from Black Reach and he fielded vanilla marines: Captain, 2 five man troop choices, and a Land Raider. He was able to outrange the Dread and popped it first turn and didn't have to worry about termies for a while so he just kept shooting at the squad with the Missle Launcher on the subsequent turns. Driving around he was able to stay out of assault range of termies the entire game.

[Lady_Canoness]

QFT

 

I played a guy a 600 point match on a 4x4 board. I fielded every marine from Black Reach and he fielded vanilla marines: Captain, 2 five man troop choices, and a Land Raider. He was able to outrange the Dread and popped it first turn and didn't have to worry about termies for a while so he just kept shooting at the squad with the Missle Launcher on the subsequent turns. Driving around he was able to stay out of assault range of termies the entire game.

 

Some people are jerks that way IMO.

 

Seriously the game is supposed to be fun, but where is the fun in taking a unit that should 1) not on a recon/inserection team in the first place, and 2) will be nigh impossible for your opponents to kill. If you ask me, anything below 750pts should follow the old Combat patrol rules.... but I digress

 

Back on topic.

A pair of Immolators are great little tools to have in 500pts - not to heavy that you'll get slapped with cheese, but powerful enough to make their presence felt. Granted, if you don't have 2 Immolators at hand then I would once again go with the small Retributor squad. Heavy Bolters, faith, what's not to love?

[a-nesuto]

wow so many posts :D

i dont have a Immolator yet so i'll try some Retributor's.

 

how's this?

 

Canoness(BW, BP, BoSL) 81 points

 

13 Sisters+VSS(CCW, BP) 162 points

Storm Bolter

 

9 IST+ Vet(CCW, Hell Pistol) 125 points

Flamer, Grenade Launcher

 

5 Sisters+VSS(CCW,BP, BoSL) 130 points

3 Heavy Bolters

 

498 points

4 Faith points

30 Models

[Toogeloo]

This will probably need to be moved to Army Lists to be more on topic there, but I can give you some advice.

 

Canoness(BW, BP, BoSL) 81 points

Not bad at this points total. A cloak is almost always mandatory, but you might get away with it here. I would go with an Eviscerator to shave a couple more points (making her 76 points total) and giving her the potential to Instant Death a T4 model. Make sure she walks with a Squad of girls.

 

 

13 Sisters+VSS(CCW, BP) 162 points

Storm Bolter

I don't like this setup at all. Only one special weapon and it isn't a very good one. Drop the girls to 10, add a Meltagun and a Heavy Flamer. Usually it is a good idea to skip the CCW+BP combo on the Vet, but with the Canoness in the group, you will probably be in Assault more frequently (gulp!). That brings the squad to 146 points.

 

 

9 IST+ Vet(CCW, Hell Pistol) 125 points

Flamer, Grenade Launcher

IST don't really help you here. They don't add faith, and they are weaker in general with their lower save. Drop them for another squad of girls like the one I mentioned above for another 146 points.

 

 

5 Sisters+VSS(CCW,BP, BoSL) 130 points

3 Heavy Bolters

Drop the Book, if they are getting assaulted, you are screwed anyways. I would also drop one girl to make it five girls... The Vet, 3 Heavy Bolters, and an extra girl to take a wound making the squad 114 points.

 

 

Now you have 5 Faith and you cover almost everything an army needs (2 Meltas and an Eviscerator for Armor, Long Range Support in the form of 3 Heavy Bolters, and 2 Heavy Flamers for Anti-Infantry) all for 482 points. With 18 points to work with, you could add another Heavy Bolter to the Retributors or upgrade one Heavy Bolter to a MultiMelta and throw the Blessed Weapon back on the Canoness.

 

Hope that helps.

[Chengar Qordath]

I would scrap or change your current IST unit; personally I don't think IST's are useful for much beyond adding plasma guns to your list; grenade launchers aren't so great and the Sisters make far better flamer troops.

 

Personally I would suggest changing your list like so:

 

Canoness(BW, BP) 76 points

 

11 Sisters including with VSS Bolter BoSL

2 Storm Bolters

150 points

 

11 Sisters including VSS with Bolter, BoSL

2 Storm Bolters

150 points

 

6 Sisters including VSS with Bolter

3 Heavy Bolters

125 points

 

501 points (Anyone see a way to shave the extra point off this list?)

5 Faith points

[Toogeloo]

The problem with your list Chengar is that everything will allow MEQ to take armor saves except the Blessed Weapon, and if he is relying on that, he is probably lost anyways since he is in Close Combat with Marines. If his opponent fields a low cost vehicle like a walker or whirlwind, then you have nothing to punch through it. Heck, even a Rhino can Tank Shock him every turn without fear.

 

The list needs Low AP and high Strength weapons, not only to take on vehicles but to remove more enemy models off the board without save, as well as Long Range. It is all about balance.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I don't like this setup at all. Only one special weapon and it isn't a very good one. Drop the girls to 10, add a Meltagun and a Heavy Flamer. Usually it is a good idea to skip the CCW+BP combo on the Vet, but with the Canoness in the group, you will probably be in Assault more frequently (gulp!). That brings the squad to 146 points.

My Battle Sisters squad I use is very similar to this (vet superior w/ bolt pistol, power weapon, one meltagun, one heavy flamer, then grenades and a book if I'm generous or have the points) and I have found it very dependable and well rounded. I've been very happy with it. I also share the disdain of Storm Bolters as the Sisters special weapon, I haven't ever liked them.

[Melissia]

I like them, but I can't see them as an actual viable choice. But then, there's a difference between liking an option or unit (I like Penitant Engines) and being willing to take them in an army if you want to win.

[a-nesuto]

9 IST+ Vet(CCW, Hell Pistol) 125 points

Flamer, Grenade Launcher

IST don't really help you here. They don't add faith, and they are weaker in general with their lower save. Drop them for another squad of girls like the one I mentioned above for another 146 points.

 

i have the Storm Troopers in there cuz i dont have enough models for a pure Sisters army. (14 sisters W/ bolters, 2 Vets, 2 storm bolters, 2 Flamers, 2 Meltaguns, 2 Heavy Flamers, 4 Heavy Bolters)

 

the only vehicle i have to worry about is the nid players Carniflex.

[Charred Heretic]

QFT

 

I played a guy a 600 point match on a 4x4 board. I fielded every marine from Black Reach and he fielded vanilla marines: Captain, 2 five man troop choices, and a Land Raider. He was able to outrange the Dread and popped it first turn and didn't have to worry about termies for a while so he just kept shooting at the squad with the Missle Launcher on the subsequent turns. Driving around he was able to stay out of assault range of termies the entire game.

 

Some people are jerks that way IMO.

May be true, but why permit this asymmetric possibility any chance to occur?

 

If you want to guarantee balance in your small game,

don't try to achieve it "blind" with your list design at home.

 

That's the wrong tool for the job.

Because WH are simply not as "tuneable" as Marines.

 

Right tool = discussion.

Maybe disclose your Heavies, or exclude "33+" armor. (Often done in 500 pts games)

(Front AV + Side AV + Rear AV).

 

The Multi-Melta Immo with a HKM might be a viable choice, but with its short range and thin armor,

it is certainly not solid choice. Chances are it will get hit first, and with its weak armor, it will pop first.

A missile launcher laughs at it.

[Marid]

i have the Storm Troopers in there cuz i dont have enough models for a pure Sisters army. (14 sisters W/ bolters, 2 Vets, 2 storm bolters, 2 Flamers, 2 Meltaguns, 2 Heavy Flamers, 4 Heavy Bolters)

 

the only vehicle i have to worry about is the nid players Carniflex.

 

Ah, good. We know what you have to work with. With four heavy bolters we know you can make a full-out Retributor squad. Since you have the models I vote for them. Storm Troopers are not bad. As a beginning player there's no reason not to use what you have, although it would be nice if you had two ISTs with plasma guns or meltas to give them their usual punch.

[Melissia]

Stormies aren't bad... they just... aren't good. THey're sitting right on the edge of good and bad, and so when compared to the Sisters, they look bad.

[Eddie Orlock]

You know, I'm not sure the original poster was using the them 'out ranged' to mean that the opponents guns could shoot further, but that they were putting out more firepower than he was.

 

One thing he could do without any change to his points values might be to 'combat squad' his storm troops. It would give him another scoring unit at the expense of offering another kill point in some missions. A five strong group of rifles to sit on an objective in his end while the sarg and specialists go off on a more proactive role. I'd consider using 'em as bait if any of his opponents seem inclined to assault, take advantage of the fact that people can't sweeping advance into a new combat in this edition and set up a counter charge with the Sororita.

[WAR]

I would scrap or change your current IST unit; personally I don't think IST's are useful for much beyond adding plasma guns to your list; grenade launchers aren't so great and the Sisters make far better flamer troops.

 

Personally I would suggest changing your list like so:

 

Canoness(BW, BP) 76 points

 

11 Sisters including with VSS Bolter BoSL

2 Storm Bolters

150 points

 

11 Sisters including VSS with Bolter, BoSL

2 Storm Bolters

150 points

 

6 Sisters including VSS with Bolter

3 Heavy Bolters

125 points

 

501 points (Anyone see a way to shave the extra point off this list?)

5 Faith points

drop the bolt pistol......In smaller games I field a canoness with just the book, combi melta and cloak but at this small I would just take a power weapon and bp to save points to max my models and faith