The Either Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 it just came to me today what were the Dark Angels up to during the Heresy??? we know what most of the other Legions were going during this time. but i don't remember hearing about the DA untill after the Heresy at Caliban? if anyone can fill me in great! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Campaigning with the Night Lords or Wolves depending on your source Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1705970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Ohhhhhh ... the Dark Angels forum would go nuts with this question!!!! See what Astellan had to say about it in Angels of Darkness. (Now there's a good read!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1705994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 We were campaigning with BOTH the Space Wolves and the Night Lords :) How you ask? Easy, we're Dark Angels. Come ask us again when you are in the Inner Circle. But for now, turn the other way so I can turn you into a servitor for asking questions about the Dark Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1706017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I believe old fluff puts the Dark Angels on the sideline of the heresy, above Terra but waiting for a clear winner before they commit their forces. this is what the older players of the local shop tell me. from what i have read, the Lion and the WOlf were campaigning together at the eruption of the Heresy, and made way to Terra when news finally broke out. They would have arrived quicker if the WOlf hadnt decided to stop and liberate a few forge worlds along the way, which is why the guard have a tank named after him. this displeased the Lion, but he also stopped his advance and aided the Wolf. so the Lion and a chunk of the DA were with the Wolves, another chunk on Caliban. i hadnt heard they were campaining with the NLs, so i guess u have just learned something. this is aleast what i remember reading. Wolf Lord Kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1706065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnought Baraziel Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 We were busy deleting records of ourselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1708835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Isn't room 43 or something similar around here somewhere? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Lionel Johnson probably sided with Horus, however he stayed back to see how things would pan out at which point he saw that Horus was losing and returned to Caliban destroying the planet in order to kill the "fallen" Caliban Legion who were actually still loyal and would know of Johnson's betrayal. With the witnesses mostly out of the way and their primarch mortally wounded the remaining DA nonchalantly joined up with the rest of the Imperium to scour the various traitors, using this mostly as a cover to kill any remaining "fallen" that still knew of their initial heresy. Hence why Cypher is a renegade but not a Chaos marine (this has been said by GW) and why the DA call themselves unforgiven and kill any who either pry into their history or know of it first hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolon Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 While the current trend is to say the DA secretly sided with Horus, there is not a lot of fluff to hang that opinion on. While the Lion may have been a secretive and manipulating leader, I don’t see him as a traitor. If anything the heresy would have given him a chance to vindicate the thought that he should have been Warmaster and not Horus. Even if you were to say he was a traitor when the DA arrived at Terra they would have been able to rally the rebels and sweep away the remaining opposition. If the DA were traitor you also have to ignore the fact that Horus was worried the DA/SW arrival would tip the balance against him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Actually this point of view originates for the BL book "Angels of Darkness" which heavily implies that Johnson was corrupted by Chaos for a long time and that he delayed his own passage to Terra to be able to better see who the victor would be and later bombarded Caliban to kill those that knew of his secret and that the Fallen are loyal to the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 The 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death was explicit in describing Johnson as loyal and the fallen as corrupted. And I recently was looking through my old 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines, where Cyphers motivation was described as reaching his destination with the lion sword at his side to repent for the mistake and the shame of the fallen. At teh moment Luthor struck down Johnson, he realised what he was doing and how he had been fooled, and he lost his sanity about it. A lot of the fallen have realised that as well as they were sucked into the warp and scattered across space and time. Not all have, however. As far as those sources go, there is no mystery, no question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I am really intrigued from where all this "Lion waited to see who would win" is coming. The background states that he and the Wolf fought side by side during the Heresy and that it were the actions of the Wolf that delayed the arrival of both legions to Earth in time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The Lion is THE greatest Tactician among the Primarchs. Plus, if you read between the lines, one could see that the Lion had OCD or something of that nature. Very perfectionist in battle plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1710732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Either Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 cool, thanks 4 the info guys :jaw: i need to get that angels of darkness book cos i really want to read what rain said about them :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Waiting.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 The Lion is THE greatest Tactician among the Primarchs. Plus, if you read between the lines, one could see that the Lion had OCD or something of that nature. Very perfectionist in battle plans. That clearly wasn't the case as more articles than i can remember (plus the HH novels, Horus said it) the GW have always described Dorn as the best tactician out of all the Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Weaver Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 The Lion is THE greatest Tactician among the Primarchs. Plus, if you read between the lines, one could see that the Lion had OCD or something of that nature. Very perfectionist in battle plans. That clearly wasn't the case as more articles than i can remember (plus the HH novels, Horus said it) the GW have always described Dorn as the best tactician out of all the Primarchs. Now you've done it! Thrown the proverbial match into the powder keg. Anyway, I have read this too but it is a widely contested claim. Offensive strategy vs. Defensive strategy maybe? Who knows? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Loken Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Too true I think that every Primarch was considered to be the best tactician at one point or another, Fulgrim he was at it, then there was Alpharius doing his thing and Guilliman with his organising. Corr the list goes on for about 15 more Primarchs. Personally though, and this is just my opinion, I think the DA are doing a very good cover up of their position during the heresy, and I think that the DA codex is essentially a look at the DA from their point of view not an outsiders view, otherwise they wouldn't come across asvery nice at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Now you've done it! Thrown the proverbial match into the powder keg. Anyway, I have read this too but it is a widely contested claim. Offensive strategy vs. Defensive strategy maybe? Who knows? Don't forget siege/defensive warfare is completely different to open battle. Siege warfare requires patience beyond extreme and then once the defences are broken all that pent up frustration and anger is released, so i'd say Dorns lads are one of the most agressive post heresy. Also remember that the IF excel at seige/defensive operations it doesnt mean they cant slog it out with an enemy if its needed. :( Too true I think that every Primarch was considered to be the best tactician at one point or another, Fulgrim he was at it, then there was Alpharius doing his thing and Guilliman with his organising. Corr the list goes on for about 15 more Primarchs. Not quite true, Dorn has more claim to the title than anyone as its hes been called it more than any of the other Primarchs. Each has his own skill though Alpharius for example, the skill he had more than anyone was deception, that is a skill beyond most tacticians capabilites, sure all commanders can use deception but not to the sheer level of Alpharius & Omegon. The Dark Angels were pansys during the crusade, their record wasn't exactly good. When it came to it their record of conquered worlds and battles was mid-table down the list of the Legions. I don't rate them at all, not after reading Angels of Darkness anyway.. The Lion and his secretive ways were the worst thing that could have happened to the Dark Angels, they were better without him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Well, 1 problem i have noticed in keeping the tally record of who had the best record amongst the Primarchs is how many years of conflicting sources??? i remember that Horus was the top dog, followed by Gulliman (through numbers and effiecny is my guess) and then Russ (through sheer awesomeness). a concentrated look into this would be interesting. wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Well, 1 problem i have noticed in keeping the tally record of who had the best record amongst the Primarchs is how many years of conflicting sources??? i remember that Horus was the top dog, followed by Gulliman (through numbers and effiecny is my guess) and then Russ (through sheer awesomeness). It was Horus then Dorn and then Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 okay, as long as Russ stays #3 i am not complaining! wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Hehe yeh top three primarchs in the right order imo. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 to be honest, wasnt horus taking some of the victores accomplished by primarchs working under him as his own? i seem to remember horus pissing off the raven guard and corax due to this? wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Only Horus and Lion El'Johnson could claim more victories than Russ and this was a constant frustration to him. Index Astartes 1 (Index Astartes Dark Angels), Page 20, "The Lion And The Wolf". [Roboute Guilliman] succeeded in liberating more worlds during the Great Crusade than any other Primarch, and the worlds he brought within the Imperium were to benefit from his organisational skills and passion for efficient government. 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines, Page 12, "Fortress Macragge". Those are the sources I know of that describe accomplishments during the Great Crusade. If anyone knows of other sources, giving a differing account, please cite them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147082-what-were-the-dark-angels-up-to/#findComment-1716507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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