Aaggghh! Freaking Orks!

[Storm Templar]

I can deal with pretty much any foe, however, my friend's Orks give me endless headaches. His Warboss/Nobz/Painboy mob, zips across the table and pile into the nearest squad (usually my devestators), while his Boyz mob Wagggh right into my lines where they stomp all over my poor, poor marines and don't get me started on his Dethcopters... ^_^

 

His forces consists of:

 

Warboss

10 Nobz with a Painboy (Which aparently count as troops)

20 Boyz

9 Dethcopters

 

I need some help comming up with a list & tactics to help me beat his horde.

 

This is what I have to work with:

Company Master

Interorgator Chaplain

Liberian

5 Vetarans with Meltagun

5 Terminators

Dreadnaught with Multimelta and Storm Bolter

10 Tacticals with Flamer and Missile Launcher

10 Tacticals with Plasma Gun and Multimelta or Heavy Bolter

3 Ravenwing Bikers with Flamer

Predator with Lascannons and Heavy Bolter

5 Devestators with Plasma Cannons, Lascannon and Multimelta/Heavy Bolter

 

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Storm Templar

[Mal]

First and foremost, you need to play to your strengths and his weaknesses. (Yes nobz can count as troops if you have a warboss, even a named one).

 

Remember that with the exception of characters orksies have terrible initaive (which always makes me laugh when people spend point kitting every ork out with stickbombs... a marine will still hit them first).

Also drop the meltas, take plasmas instead, there is a minimal risk of overheat, and even if you do, you have a decent armour save to aid you. But more importantly they can single shot twice the max range of a meltagun or rapid fire 12".

When dealing with orks rapid fire is your friend, cover is mostly unimportant, they have very few weapons that will ignore your armour with the exception of CC weapons, at which point cover doesn't matter anyway, but you want to keep them out of cover so hole up in the open somewhere and let them come out of their hidey holes and come to you so your only dealing with a 6+ Sv (4+ upgrade for nobz and warboss if he pays for it).

 

Also virtually the entire ork army has a Bs of 2... which means they will hit you 33% of the time as opposed to your 66% of the time.

In all honesty whe I fight orks, I have lots and lots of 10 man units with nothing but boltguns, they work more than well enough.

 

There is nothing you can do about his Wagggh!! apart from hope that he doesn't roll high enough to make contact with you. (any self repecting ork wouldn't use it until they were 7-8" away however... so shoot them to death before hand).

 

The dethcopters can be a pain to deal with, does he use 3 units of 3? (max unit size is 5), also does he have the buzzsaw?

Take a couple of missile launchers, the S8 krak missile will instakill a Dethcopter in one shot (the extra toughness doesn't apply for double strength weaponry). So he will be left with being hit on a 3+ wounded on a 2+ and no armour save + instant death (both wounds), do that a few times and they will dissapear pretty quickly.

 

Ok not a lot I can do to help you with army list without knowing the points limit you use, but i'd recommed getting another 10 man tac squad or 2, missile launchers and plasmagun mix, give the serg a powerweapon (he wont need anything more).

[Captain Malachi]

Agreed with mal on all points, although I would like to ask one question, why is your nearest squad your devs?

[Sigismund's Ghost]

I agree with the previous posters but would like to add a couple or three rhinos can be usefull. You can restrict enemy movement and channelize the orks into your kill zone. When used with terrain you can really slow down a horde army. Slowed down = shot to pieces.

[Mal]

I disagree with that last bit, and ork player worth his salt will be using the terrain to its fullest, this is because orks get a 6+ armour save or a 4+ cover save....

 

What you want to do is get them out into the open, they can't hit the broad side of a thunderhawk if it landed right in front of them so standing back in cover and shooting is NOT an option for an ork player.

[Nurgle71]

If you are playing a objective based game, take out the boyz and the bst result they can acheive is a draw. Other than that as much boltgun and flamers as pssible and you wont do to bad. For the nobs, unlessyou have a 'uber squad that can take it out in close combat, try to empty all the heavy weapon into the the nob squad and see if they fall over.Multiple assualt canonn can take down a nobsquad of any size.

[Grindgodgrind]

I often find that if the Ork player gets to set up first, a refused flank tactic is always useful. This way, if he's set up a big mob of Boyz on the other side of the battlefield, it'll take a while for them to get anywhere near you. Consider using Attack Bikes against Orks, as the extra mobility can often force an Ork player to split his forces.

[Mal]

Nah, a small force of attack bikes will do minor damage to a boyz squad when compared to a 10 man tac rapid firing into them and THEN hitting first in combat.

 

But the DethCopters will be able to deal with the bikes with minimum of fuss.

 

Don't bother taking anything fancy against orks, they are a simple race and simple tactics actually work the best (theres less that can go wrong).

 

Throw out lots of full strength tac squads and lure the orks into the open, then rapid fire them to death.

 

For example...

 

10 tac marine in the open, orks move in. Marines open fire.

8 rapid firing bolters (16 shots) 66% hit rate means 10.7 hits (lets round down to show muphys law in effect).

10 hit 50% wound, 5 wounds... no save.

5 dead orks.

2 rapid firing plasma hits... 1.3 hit rate averages out 1 dead.

6 dead orks.

Frag missile (not too far off target, say 4 hits on massed troops), 2 wounds no saves.

8 dead orks.

 

Then orks turn. Of the 20 boys 12 are left alive. So lets say nob, 2 big shootas and 9 boys.

10 slugga shots, 33% hit rate (murphys law round up, 4 hits) 50% wound, 2 wounds... 2 3+ saves... say 1 fails.

1 dead marine.

6 big shoota shots, 2 hits 1 wound, say murphys law again, 1 failed save.

2 dead marines.

 

Now orks charge... 12 orks to 8 marines.

 

Marine with higher I hit first, 7 marines each with 1 attack. 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound....average 2 hits. 6+ armour save... (not likely)

10 dead orks. (at this stage the orks loose their fearless rule)

Marine capt hits 2 attacks, average 1 wound no save.

11 dead orks.

Orks fight back... 6 orks with shoota and choppa, 2 orks with big shoota and nob.

24 attacks from shoppa/slugga and 6 attacks from shoota.

30 attacks, 15 hit, 5 wound, murphys law 2 fail saves.

4 marines dead.

Nob hits 5 attacks, murphys law 2 wounds, 2 dead marines. (averages worked out using both big choppa and power klaw)

6 marines dead.

 

So 1 turn each... 1 orks have died and 6 marines. in each round of combat marines will hit first, please note I've given more upgrades to orks than marines and murphys law always works AGAINST marines!!

 

It just goes to show, if you can set the battlefield then marines CAN stand toe to toe with orks.

[Leethal]

I'm surprised that no one said this.

 

Whirlwinds. Nice big templates, and if your using 4th rules, minefields. If you're using 5th Ignore Cover Str4AP5 blast.

[Grindgodgrind]

Yeah, Whirlwinds work really well. I still don't understand the hate towards Attack Bikes, they rule.

[Mal]

Ohh I have no hate towards bikes... but I play orks as 1 of my 4 main 40K armies... and I find them to be little more than a nummy snack before hitting my opponents main lines.

 

If you know how, they are pretty easy to get around when in small numbers. (of course facing a whole army of them is a different story)

[Stargazer]

I don't know if its relevant yet but in the new codex take 10 sternguard with 2 Heavy Flamers (now assault weapons) in a Drop Pod they can easily take out a 20 man squad of boyz on the turn they land!

bye bye orks

[Grindgodgrind]

Nah, a small force of attack bikes will do minor damage to a boyz squad when compared to a 10 man tac rapid firing into them and THEN hitting first in combat.

 

But the DethCopters will be able to deal with the bikes with minimum of fuss.

 

I disagree. The trick is to keep the Dethcopters 24" away, where they can;t target you, and use your 36" HB's to maximum advantage. After whittling down a boyz mob for two or three turns, Attack Bikes will hold up Boyz quite happily. I also use a unit of multi-melta bikes to knock down anything nasty like Dethkoptas, vehicles, nobz w/ klaws...

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

I'm surprised no one has said this. Deffkoptas have scouts and can outflank. Outflanking deffs with powerfists are scary.

[Grindgodgrind]

It's rare that you'll see Deffkoptas with powerklaws. Most of the Ork players down here don't use Deffkoptas due to them being more expensive than a unit of 30+ Boyzg

[ShinyRhino]

At my shop, Deffkoptas are the rage amongst Ork players. I suspect it's because of the Outflank move, and the fact that every Black Reach box has them.

Lascannon and krak missile fire can take them down, unless they Outflanked right into your battle line and end up locked in combat.

[Melissia]

Personally, I still prefer the old Green Tide strategy to relying on special gimmicks. Put enough boyz into the fight and utilize cover properly, and you're bound to have some fun times.

[Cavalier]

Around my shop, the Ork players use 4-6 max size Boyz Mobs, 1-2 Tank Bustas, 1-2 Loota Boyz (it's 2 of one, 1 of the other) with the odd time it's 1 Tank Busta, 1 Loota, 1 Kommando w/ special character. Whatever points left usually go intothe Warboss and his retinue of Meganobz in an open-topped vehicle that doesn't die when it's blown up. I wish my vehicles were Ramshackle. After that atrocity, there's usually Old Zogwort or a Shokk Attack Gun-equipped Big Mek. At 2000 points, that still leaves plenty of points for Fast Attack and Heavy Support. Maybe throw in some Deff Dreads or Killa Kans or Zapp Batteries.

 

 

Really, I think the best bet is to load up on high-RoF & flamer weapons and hope for the best. Concentrate on one unit at a time and obliterate it. If you DS a Dreadnaught, make sure it has the Heavy Flamer and roast some elites.

[Mal]

Ok first off you CANNOT give a PK to a deffkopta you CAN give them buzzblades however, they acheive a similar thing but are stronger. (and more expensive IIRC).

 

Also how in heavens name do you keep a fast skimmer at over 24" range, if they want in they WILL get in hoping they might be scared of a gun or 2 if foolish in the extreme.

 

You need to be prepared they they will target you and they WILL hit what they want (deffkoptas get TL weapons options), and remember you need to keep orks out of 18" range.... so that 24" gives you 1 turn to kill pretty much everything.... sorry you may want to think again about that plan... if has a few flaws in it Grindgodgrind.

 

Ultimately its highly that you will stop the orks from hitting your lines, so you need to be prepared to shore up your lines.

If you have ever played chess then the setup you would need is called 'the hedgehog defence'.

You split your units half stand a few inches forward of the rest in this kind of formation '.'.'.' so the units at the front have a chance to survive (see my earlier post of combat) and the following turn yourr supporting unit can run in and mop up the remaining boyz. This plan is the best way that I can come up with of not loosing too many KP's while wiping the boys out to a man.

[Biggsthemedic]

My sisters army goes up against my brother's orks all the time and i really struggle to kill all his orks...then that nob squad terrifies me...I'm telling you, a boatload of two wound bad asses with feel no pain is no joke! My best stategy is to kill thier transport early on if possible then rob them of critical speed. This never works however as i roll more ones with my dice than I do any other number...sigh...evil dice. The stategy is solid though!

[Ming]

My 3rd Co Ultras fight hard to stem the green tide every chance they get. I was amused to see the example run down above...I typically have 30+ marines and support trying to hold back 70+ orks with their Kans, truks, bikes, Bobz, and Boss. It is the hardest work for a marine to do. New ork army lists include Shokk Attack Gunz, deffcoptas and lots of "ded killy stuff'. Yes, boyz mobz can die fast if you can focus on them, but the storm boyz, aard boyz, and nobz can ruin ypour day - especially in annihilation games. Ork players have been changing their "cunnin taktics" to run their mobz as waves rather than blobs, making it harder for template weapons to work at range.

 

Overall, I'm a big proponent (but can change with new dex) when playing orks to: (1) deploy devs armed with 4xHBs (more efficient points wise); (2) tacs are las-plas (focusing on killing ork transports turn 1, change to mob control turn 2 and objectives after that); (3) assault units are countercharge and led by a chaplain (keep them to respond so the chaplains charge effects come to value); (3) speeders are best AC-HB platforms, used as fire support early, and grab objectives late game; (4) whirlwind used for eliminating long range ork support units; (5) Vindie used for meganob response or supporting a late game advance. If you win the dice roll for setup, if the terrain is nuetrqal, lkety the orks set up first and go first. If you set up after the ork player, use distance as your friend (be 26 inches from his start line). All this does is make sure they are in your range turn 1, but you have to be able to weather ork supporting fire (rokkits, shokk, deffguns, ets). If not annihilation, focus all on killing his troop units first. If annihilation, kill the biggest and fastest threats first. If you cannot kill it, walk away or run from it and let further away units cover the movement.

[Shiodome]

i like to plunge into the horde at full speed! 10 man squads in rhino's, smaller squads in razorbacks, assault squads behind. rhino's upfront, razorbacks immediatley behind, assault guys about 8" further back. head straight at the orks, drive by flamers from the rhinos, heavy bolters from the razors backs (though looking to get some twin linked heavy flamer turrets made soon ), smoke launchers turn 2 (for them pesky deffkopters soon to arrive).

 

the orks pretty much routinely fail to destroy your transports in the shooting phase. meaning if they want to stop you taking chunks out of their mobs with your flamers etc, they'll be assaulting and either failing to destroy your rhinos or blowing your transports up spectacularly (especially those nobs mobs), which is a real bonus (D6" range strength 4 explosion? YES PLEASE!) as it doesn't hurt the marines inside anywhere near as much as the orks assaulting. either result is fine. then your marines are on foot, in rapid fire range, with flamers, next to depleted boys mobs. shoot as much as you can with the tac squads... assault any weakened mobs with the assault squads behind. you won't take out everything by any means. expect a couple of still full sized boys mobs in a '2nd wave' to charge 2 of your squads next turn (liekly your assault squads as they're now furthest foward). then gun down those filthy orks stood over the corpses of your brothers with whatever you have left (should still be in rapid fire/range + razor backs).

 

in brief, harras with mobilty. take the first wave against your vehicle hulls, take out that wave in response, weather the counter charge, mow it down. the emperor favours the bold. ramming is always a fun option if facing an ork army with a lot of mobs in trucks :( razorback squads disembark if needed, but otherwise they're for exploiting gaps to head for objectives.

 

oh, word of caution... keep an eye out for transports getting fully surrounded. if there's nowhere for your squad to disembark to then it gets destroyed. but there's ways to ensure that doesn't happen.

[Mal]

firstly you may want to go back and re-read the rules about vehicle explosions... its only strength 3 not 4, and seeing as an ork has the same toughness as a marine (4) they will only be wounded on a 4+ not a 3+, granted its nice, but what do you do when he rolls a 5 on the vehicle damage table, or even a 3/4 (3 if you dont have pintle SB's your hb/hf will die), and a 4 means that next turn all hits against you automatically hit.... rear armour 10 nob with choppa is str 4, nob with big choppa is str 5, nob with powerklaw is str 8.... minimum of 3 hits against you says that a unit of them is pretty much garunteed to kill that tank. Oops thats 1 kp you've thrown away (per tank) and it leave you tac squad in a position to get ripped to shreds, you cannot expect to take on near/full strength ork squad with a 10 man tac squad in combat, marines need to soften them up a bit first, otherwise you will kill a few then get ripped to shreds... oops there goes another KP (per squad)....

 

Soyy I don't mean to be putting a downer on you, but thats poor tactics to use against an experienced ork player.

 

*edit* I've just read your post again, you must play an opponent that doesn't have a clue what they are doing... shoot in rapid fire range then assult whats left.... ok now thats funny.... you CANNOT assult after using a rapid fire weapon, even for just 1 shot, try using a bolt pistol instead.

 

*further edit* Also if you was to ram one of my boyz trukks with a rhino, then fail to kill it, I can safely say if I kill the rhino in return then I can easily space the disembarking orks from that trukk around the rhino to a degree that you cannot disembark the marines to be within 2" of the access point, within 2" of squad coherence and outside of 1" from an enemy model, meaning the whole squad will die.

[Shiodome]

you missed that the squads shooting and the squads assaulting are different units (the reason for keeping the assault squads 8" behind), that i pointed out the dangers of vehicles being surrounded, and that the orks first wave is to be softened up during the approach. ramming is an 'option' not a tactic, and never really does much, but it's fun. :) you'll lose rhino's and a couple of tactical squads for sure but if you're playing annihilation and the cost is too much then you've got the mobility to adapt and maintain a mobile gunline instead.

 

re: the exploding vehicle strength, thanks for pointing that out. gone back to my BBB to check it, and looks like it's stemmed from a misreading of the open topped rules on pg70 ("the strength... is lower than it would be in a normal transport (i.e strength 3")). must have taken that to mean strength three is lower than normal, therefore strength 4 is normal (for none open topped vehicles). one of those things where once you tihnk you know a rule, you never bother to look it up again

[Mal]

ahh yes, sorry about the assult squads, I missed that bit at the end.

 

I know exactly what you mean about reading the rules and thinking that mean one thing and not going back to check again until you've made a fool of yourself (i've done that more times than im comfortable with :P)

 

Although to be completly honest as someone who plays Dark Angels, Death Guard, Genestealers and Orks, if I have a marine opponent whos willing to close with me then im a very happy Ork, there are lots of tricks an Ork player can use to keep the bulk of his forces alive, and never underestimate the power of a well timed Waaagh!! (I have an Ork list at 1500 points that has approx 900 attacks on the charge thanks to Waaagh!! and if my weird boyz behave themselves that numer goes up drastically, not forgetting the potential 18 inch assult range).

 

Orks in the hands of a player used to running them are always going to be a challenge, the safest tactic I have ever employed against them is to lure them out into the open and bolter them to death, its the position where you are most likely to do optimum damage to them, and a weaked mob is not a real threat to a strong marine squad, espically not if they are supported.

 

*edit* Of course the OP looks to be fortunate to have an Ork opponent who seems to have missed the basic tennant of any competative Ork army.... and thats: Boyz over Toyz.