Curiosity Strikes (Grey Knight/Daemonhunters Question)

[DarkKnightCuron]

I've heard that, with the new release of 5th Edition and the new Chaos Demons Codex, that Grey Knights are not as potent against Demons (or many other armies) then they once were, if not making them a lot harder to fight (due to some respawn thing or another). How founded are these rumors? I'm thinking about Starting up a DH army, and I would like to know what I'm getting into before I find out the hard way.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I've heard that, with the new release of 5th Edition and the new Chaos Demons Codex, that Grey Knights are not as potent against Demons (or many other armies) then they once were, if not making them a lot harder to fight (due to some respawn thing or another). How founded are these rumors? I'm thinking about Starting up a DH army, and I would like to know what I'm getting into before I find out the hard way.

 

What you are referring to is the following entry;

 

"Daemonic Infestation: ...To represent this, Daemon Packs, Nurglings and Daemonic Beasts Packs (but not Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes or any other type of Daemon) gain the Sustained Attack scenario special rules (see the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook) in any missions where they are opposed by Grey Knights. Daemons brought back into play in this manner are not summoned (they re-enter the table from the edges as detailed in the Sustained Attack rles) and cannot claim mission objecitves, table quarters, etc..."

 

Two things. Firstly, 'Daemon Packs' and 'Daemonic Beast Packs' no longer exist. So, if any remaining Daemons benefit, it will only be Nurglings.

 

Secondly, Sustained Assault no longer exists, thus the rule leads nowhere.

 

 

So, Daemons do not 'respawn' a la 'Without Number' like with Tyranids, if they die they remain dead.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Reclusiarch Darius is correct, Daemonic infestation no longer exists, but GKs in particular are less potent against Daemons. If you're starting with DH, don't go straight for all GKs. Start with Inquisitors, Stromtroopers, maybe some allied Guard (you can still take GKs then) to get a balanced list.

[Chengar Qordath]

Reclusiarch Darius is correct, Daemonic infestation no longer exists, but GKs in particular are less potent against Daemons. If you're starting with DH, don't go straight for all GKs. Start with Inquisitors, Stromtroopers, maybe some allied Guard (you can still take GKs then) to get a balanced list.

 

The removal of Daemonic Instability in the Daemon codex, along with other things like Daemons being immune to Force Weapons, definately hut the effectiveness of Grey Knights against them but they still have some nice options. Forcing any daemons that try to assault to take a difficult terrain test is nice, as are weapons like psycannons that can ignore the invulnerable saves Daemons rely upon.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

along with other things like Daemons being immune to Force Weapons

 

Not ours, thankfully. Codex > BRB, and we have an armoury entry for 'force weapon' which uses the 'remove all wounds' version. So, keep frying those Greater Daemons and Princes, no one else can :confused: .

[Melissia]

Indeed. The codex superscedes the rulebook in that aspect. For which Grey Knights should be eternally grateful, as that was a heavy nerf to say the least.

[number6]

Daemons assaulting GKs not only have to take a difficult terrain test to assault, but most of them will then fight at Initiative 1 as well. As the army is primarily assault-based, this is another feather in our anti-daemon cap. IMHO, the army is now actually better against daemons than it has ever been before. Our shooting is terrific against them, and we're not guaranteed to get mauled in an assault either. Most of the time, it will actually be the opposite. Just load up on psycannons and don't ever initiate any assaults. You shouldn't have to, frankly. Having at least one Inquisitor with a pair of mystics -- or a full Inquisitorial firebase with at least 1 mystic -- is absolute murder against Chaos Daemons. I've started to avoid taking it against CD armies because it just made the games too lopsided.

 

One caveat: the new Chaos Marine codex of the "daemon bomb" army is horrifically difficult to counter. At least, as it is employed in my neck of the woods. IMHO, that's one of 5th edition's "power builds", so at least it's not like we're alone there. Just unpleasant to realize that we're no better against it than anyone else, despite our fancy title.

[DevianID]

I also want to point out, dont be disappointed if you go to a tourney and they rule that yes, you have to use the rules in the rulebook for your force weapons.

 

That said, in terms of Daemonhunters vs Daemons... sanctuary still is an auto win, when it goes off no daemon can hurt you within 3 inches, and if you have a couple of them then they cant hurt anything in your army. So the game is as one sided as games with the old 'minor' power chaos used to get, that said you can not shoot or assault them when they use the power.

[Melissia]

I also want to point out, dont be disappointed if you go to a tourney and they rule that yes, you have to use the rules in the rulebook for your force weapons.

I would argue against that ruling unless GW itself stated it. GKs need what help they can get.

[Anxt]

The new plasma cannon rules and marine codex add a nice bit o spice to the anti-daemon arsonal. Allied space marine devastators with 4 plasma cannons backed up by a few elites choice inquisitors with a pair of warp seers in each ... deeps striking within 4d6" you say? Eat hot templatey death daemon scum!

[DarkKnightCuron]

I appreciate the feedback. I'll definately weigh this in whenever I decide on whether or not do go forward with this army. We have an abnormal amount of Chaos Demons players here at the shop I go to (about 6 play Chaos Demons, 3 of them play Chaos Marines, and another 4 play Chaos Marines as well)