Hello

[Gurian]

first: Hello all -

So I have been gone for some time from 40k (about 2yrs). I want to start playing my Sisters but real unsure about how game is now (not been able to grab new rulebook as yet - going to try another shop monday). Just was curious about how it compares to 4th/3rd, I had a friend say it was a bit in like 2nd tho that is hard to believe :tu:

any input would be welcome.

[InquisitorPhred]

The 'like 2nd' bit is the true line of sight. It's back down to stooping over the table and seeing what the model sees. No more abstract terrain that arbitrarily blocks LOS, etc.

 

Otherwise it's a refinement of 4th Ed. The core mechanics of movement shooting and hitting things with sticks are there. If you knew 4th ed it shouldn't feel like too terribly different a game.

[Coppella]

Hi.

Yeah, I dropped out of the hobby for about 2-3yrs, came back in the last couple months of 4th ed. 5th is pretty easy to pick up. Sisters are still a solid army. Not power houses, but certainly no where near the bottom.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Welcome back. I really like 5th Ed. The LOS rule is a throw back but most of the other rules are refined 4th. Tanks are a bit harder to shoot up but more vulnerable to assault. You can't play the shell game with your troops in assault like you could in 4th. Rending got hit with the nerf stick and Cover saves are every ware. Seraphim can now deep strike as can all other troops with Jump packs. Flamers are better as they ignore the cover saves and there are now no more "partial" hit for template weapons, you get touched you get hit. The one Main thing about winning battles that has changes is now only Troops can be "scoring units" Oh and i guess all troops getting run and a counter charge (with out the +1A) is also changed.

 

I have been playing =][= since Rogue Trader days and have just began to put together some Sisters. The SoB are looking better to me in 5th. The main reason why I'm looking more now at picking some up is the 11pt cost of sisters basic troop while Marines now cost 16. I cant help but want to field a 20 sister strong unit with 2 Storm bolters a Vet with a Strom bolter.

[WAR]

don't field/ buy repentias over priced little pay back

[Coppella]

Yes, Repentias are not worth using in the game. But wow, are they fantastic models and super fluffy to at least have. :ph34r:

[Melissia]

We can basicly say the following:

 

Everything except for Canonesses, Battle Sisters, Seraphim, Retributors, and Exorcists isn't that great as far as competativeness goes. Celestians can be okay, but you'd probably be better off putting out more Battle Sisters instead.

 

The Inquisition side of C:WH itself isn't that great either. The Inquisitor Lord w/Retinue and the Land raider maybe, but you'd still probably be better off getting more Sisters instead.

 

It's odd how the best way to improve a list is to get rid of everything but the basics-- Battle Sisters and their FA/HS support troops :ph34r:

[Gurian]

Got my rule book yesterday, some big chnages. Seems like a solid system.. tho the idea of opponets using special chars whenever they want makes me a bit nervous at least for RTT's (WH really don't have any I like.. perhaps the Saint??).

Few things I noticed that I am not sure of - the Man alone rule is that gone, and sniper rifles need to go off attackers BS now?

 

On side note, Store owner said he was told by GW sales that Inqus. are getting new codex book in spring/summer 09 with all branches in it WH/DH/XH and this part I really hope is true- Sister are getting a Plastic troop set. :)

 

Cant wait to get my first game in.

[Melissia]

The rumours about the combined Inq codex are just that, rumours . We've recieved continued mixed messages about that, and quite honestly spring 2009 would be WAY too early given how little we've heard about it (hell, we've heard more about codex: Dark Eldar, and it's not slated for likely around fall at this rate).

 

 

I bet they'll still be too lazy to actually make any visible difference between Celestians, Battle Sisters, Dominians, and Retributors, even if they do provide new plastic models (Which I would be thrilled with)

[Eddie Orlock]

The message I've heard is that spring/summer '09 is going to be guardariffic and that this codex will include an Inquisitor as a special-crutch.

 

This is probably the source of that rumour in a less corrupted form.

[Gurian]

Well got a game in today with my sisters... waiting for swelling and redness to subside right now

Won't go into alot of detail but was one of worst games I have had (tho been 2yrs at least for me). He played Chaos/Nurg

the +1 T was nasty but the fact he had a entire trench line on his side of the board really killed me, 3+ Invuln ouch.

I did manage to kill his prince and some other MC Demon he had but pretty much lost all my army to him.

 

I do have couple of questions,

1 can ord. Weps be fired if the tank moves - he told me yes so I just accepted it.

2 when I wound and its ap1 can he take hit against model in cover? or do the ones out get his first??

 

All in all I had fun, did not expest to win been so long sense I have played and all, I think if we had played on a different board I would have done better... at leat I am telling myself that

[Melissia]

can ord. Weps be fired if the tank moves

No. You should have asked him to show you where in the rulebook it allows this.

[Gurian]

can ord. Weps be fired if the tank moves

No. You should have asked him to show you where in the rulebook it allows this.

 

hey thanks for the reply, my only response is I know he will say show me where it says that they can't. I as yet can't find the rule

[Eddie Orlock]

can ord. Weps be fired if the tank moves

No. You should have asked him to show you where in the rulebook it allows this.

As a guard player I'd be keenly interested in where exactly you found this is printed in the current edition, would you be so kind as to provide me with a page number so that I may see it for myself.

 

Indirect fire ordinance can't be shot on the run, but open sights fire is certainly possible. I view it as a balancing factor for the fact that most large ordinance tanks can't hide this edition. I seem to recall the improved mobility of tanks being touted as an improvement for this edition in some designers notes.

 

I'd have to check, but I think he might have cheated you on that cover save, it's my (mis?)understanding that in this edition it's binary, a unit is either in cover from another unit or it's not. It's based on whether more than half of the targeted unit is protected by the cover from the aspect of the shooting unit.

 

As an aside, they're not 'Special Characters' any more, they prefer the term 'Unique Character'. 'Special Characters' are still functionally banned from tournements, good thing most of these previously 'special' figures are now 'unique', and thusly welcomed and embraced in such environments. As if by using previously untainted language they can combat the stigma associated with the use of 'Special Crutches'.

:P

[ArmouredWing]

Hey there Gurian, welcome to the mix.

 

In regards to your question on cover saves I think it's pretty much covered in the rulebook (Something like if >50% outside cover then unit is counted as not being in cover and vice versa).

 

Be interested to know what your list was for your first game and try and give you a few tips on what you got right and maybe if you made any 'schoolboy' errors as we all did when first fielding the sisters.

[Charred Heretic]

one of worst games I have had (tho been 2yrs at least for me). He played Chaos/Nurg the +1 T was nasty but the fact he had a entire trench line on his side of the board really killed me, 3+ Invuln ouch. I did manage to kill his prince and some other MC Demon he had but pretty much lost all my army to him.

On the 3+ abundance:

I'm not sure what all the 3+ invuln was. If it was cover saves, something was wrong.

A lot of 3+ cover saves does not fit the general guidelines unless both players have pre-agreed to a heavily fortified board.

 

But 40K is a very steep learning curve, and if you don't have the time to learn in live games, read online all you can about your enemies.

[Melissia]

can ord. Weps be fired if the tank moves

No. You should have asked him to show you where in the rulebook it allows this.

As a guard player I'd be keenly interested in where exactly you found this is printed in the current edition, would you be so kind as to provide me with a page number so that I may see it for myself.

 

Indirect fire ordinance can't be shot on the run, but open sights fire is certainly possible. I view it as a balancing factor for the fact that most large ordinance tanks can't hide this edition. I seem to recall the improved mobility of tanks being touted as an improvement for this edition in some designers notes.

Hrm... I'll have to borrow it off a friend and read through again then, as I thought I read that they couldn't be fired and move in the same turn. Damn my not being able to afford my own copy...

[Gurian]

Hey there Gurian, welcome to the mix.

 

In regards to your question on cover saves I think it's pretty much covered in the rulebook (Something like if >50% outside cover then unit is counted as not being in cover and vice versa).

 

Be interested to know what your list was for your first game and try and give you a few tips on what you got right and maybe if you made any 'schoolboy' errors as we all did when first fielding the sisters.

 

My List was

HQ

Cannoness - BW,Lit O' Faith,Cloak,JP Inferno pistol

 

Troops

Battle Sisters 13 - 2 storm bolters

Vet. Pwep Storm Bolter

 

Battler Sisters 13 - 2 Melta guns

Vet. Plas Pistol Pwep

 

Battle Sisters 9 - 1 melta gun, 1 Hvy Flamer

Vet. Plas Pistol, Evisorator

Rino Transport - Smoke

 

Fast Attack

Vet. Pwep, Combi-flamer. Melta bombs

Immolator - hvy Flamers, Xarmor, Smoke, Holy Icon

 

Seraphim Squad 6 - 2 inferno Pistols

Vet. Eviserator

 

Dominion Squad 5 - 4 Flamers, Imagfier

 

Hvy Support.

Exorcist - Xarmor, smoke

 

Exorcist - Xarmor, smoke

 

Retributor Squad 8 - 4 Hvy bolters, Imagfier.

Vet. Storm bolter. (just for added shots)

[Melissia]

Wow, that's a pretty odd list. Hrm. If you're looking to optimize, you might want to strip the inferno pistol off the canoness, Distribute a meltagun and heavy flamer to each of your squads instead of the current weaponry they have, and exchange the Sister Superiors' weapons with combiflamers/meltas. Exchange the dominian squad for another Seraphim squad instead..

 

And get more books! The Book of Saint Lucius is the best wargear a Sister Superior can have, and it's only five points.

[Gurian]

well odd it might be :) but it used to work well for me before I had quit almost 3years ago... but hehe I see your point.

 

Guess I thought book was a 1 item per army thing.

 

If you saw the board my friend and I played on you would understand bit more. I basicly got hung out in the open against his trench and ruins. I did have a ruin set at edge of board and a "woods" area about 8" from boaard edge (my edge) otherwise it was a duck shoot for him.

 

I will try your advice, hard to get the "feel" back after just one game.. but I have hopes.

[Eddie Orlock]

That sounds like a really, really, unbalanced board with victory coming to whom ever wins the roll off for deployment zones.

[Gurian]

well.. he told to come on in and he would show me how 5th ed worked. tbh I was pushed on time so didn't really look at the board ( kicking myself now lol ). I won't say he cheated I have known him to long for that, cheesey Oh no doubt he will tell you that :) . But I hold myself responsable for not really looking over the board.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Str 3 VS. T 5 is not the best situation. If your goal was to learn 5th Ed. then i think you won the War even if you lost the battle eh?

[Melissia]

Guess I thought book was a 1 item per army thing.

Book of St Lucius can be taken one per veteran sister superior and one per Adepta Sororitas HQ unit. Every single squad except for Repentia should have one (but most never take Repentia, sadly, because they suck for their points cost).

 

I will try your advice, hard to get the "feel" back after just one game.. but I have hopes.

My suggestions are based on tournament optimized lists. They may not be the most fun or fluffy ways to build the Sisters.

 

Essentially though, the best way to build sisters are these two builds:

 

 

Jump pack Canoness deep striking with Seraphim, then splitting up and causing chaos behind the lines as Mechanized Battle Sister squads take objectives and Exorcists take out heavy targets.

-Or-

Footslogger Sisters with lots of high number Sisters squads, supported by retributors and exorcists. Canoness may be given jump pack and blessed weapon to deal with tanks.

 

 

Either way, the Battle Sister squads are most efficient at rapid fire range, and giving them both heavy flamers and meltaguns gives them versatility. Proper use of Divine Guidance in large footslogger squads can mean lots and lots of AP1 results, which can really turn the tide. Having a lot of vehicles is also pretty scary to some, especially since each one carries ten power armor Sisters with bolters that fire at BS4.

[General_Drazz]

Wow, that's a pretty odd list. Hrm. If you're looking to optimize, you might want to strip the inferno pistol off the canoness, Distribute a meltagun and heavy flamer to each of your squads instead of the current weaponry they have, and exchange the Sister Superiors' weapons with combiflamers/meltas. Exchange the dominian squad for another Seraphim squad instead..

 

And get more books! The Book of Saint Lucius is the best wargear a Sister Superior can have, and it's only five points.

 

 

I agree on the Books. Never pass up a book for a VSS. Going heavy on flamers in the BS squads has worked well with me when used in conjunction with AoF. As for the Inferno Pistol, thats really up to your role for the Cannoness. My Cannoness is a Tank Hunter. I arm her with the IP (Master Crafted) a Power Weapon, and Meltabombs. I move within 3 inches, take a shot with the IP for the extra D6 AP, and if I happen to miss, I assault and finish it off. Have only lost my Cannonness in one match outta 10.