Why I never take Daemon Weapons

[Zealot Of Chaos]

theres no right time to have your face munched unfortunately

[Rain]

The issue is that Daemon Weapon's fall prey to what I call the "red light effect" which basically has to do with a perceived Murphy's Law, as for example if you leave for school/work later than usual and by chance happen to hit several red lights you will remember this incident and declare that "every time" you decide to sleep in a bit you hit red lights while every time you leave early the amount of reds is less. In reality of course the average amount of reds is the same in both instances, it's just that they irritate you more if you are already running late and so you will notice and remember them more. I think the exact same psychological issue is at play here with players remembering the worst possible situations even though they are rare and you don't really "always roll ones when you really need to not".

[Aarhus]

The issue is that Daemon Weapon's fall prey to what I call the "red light effect" which basically has to do with a perceived Murphy's Law, as for example if you leave for school/work later than usual and by chance happen to hit several red lights you will remember this incident and declare that "every time" you decide to sleep in a bit you hit red lights while every time you leave early the amount of reds is less. In reality of course the average amount of reds is the same in both instances, it's just that they irritate you more if you are already running late and so you will notice and remember them more. I think the exact same psychological issue is at play here with players remembering the worst possible situations even though they are rare and you don't really "always roll ones when you really need to not".

 

I've opened three games in recent gaming memory with 10 failed marine saves in a row.

All three of those games, that miserable hag, Lady Luck - (aka law of averages) failed to do the pendulum swing back, and I was messed uped.

 

In all honesty, the "red light effect" is created by overly-scientific minded folks who do not want to grasp the fact that luck does indeed exist for both good and bad.

Also, luck in both its varieties is invited moreso by circumstance.

 

Everyone has their stories; but anyone who uses GW dice, or other sub-par quality dice will also tell you many luck related horror stories.

 

 

Back OT:

I've been very attracted to sticking a Jugger-Feeder lord in a unit of 16 berserkers and have them Run up the field... (kinda like the old Talisman of Burning Blood with Run in this edition)

 

I've also been very attracted to having a Palanquin-Bringer lord and 4 terminators pile out of a Land Raider and proceed to wreck house!

 

 

Cheers,

Lawrence.

[chillin]

I've been very attracted to sticking a Jugger-Feeder lord in a unit of 16 berserkers and have them Run up the field... (kinda like the old Talisman of Burning Blood with Run in this edition)

 

Run them behind an advancing rino w x armor, you'll have alot more of them left when you get there.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

I don't take daemon weapons for the same reason I don't take plasma weapons anymore; I'm cursed by the Dice Gods.

 

A month ago I took 3 plasma pistols that succeeded in killing their owners in four shots and nothing else. Last wednesday I managed to roll seven sucessive ones.

 

Must not be sacrificing enough bulls.

[Cale]

Daemon weapons are reasonable choices for lords. That being said, the Lords themselves are kinda bad. They're a lot like Daemon Princes, in that they run around and murder things, but they're just worse. Point for point, you'll never get a Lord that compares to a Daemon Prince.

 

Just play DPs.

 

If, for whatever reason, though, you do feel obligated to play a Lord, give the Daemon Weapons--especially the Blissgiver, the Deathscreamer, and the one for the unmarked Lord--some serious consideration. They take him from being a marginally acceptable combat charcter in a real face-kicker.

[Sheff]

I think Khorne's influencing my dice rolls; everytime I roll for daemon weapon attacks I get a 4, 5 or 6, everytime I roll for a plasma gun I get a 1, and my dreadnought always either comes up a 1 or 6.

[Artemis360]

The fact is that luck does indeed exist for both good and bad.

 

Bloody midiclorians.

 

Anyway, the explanation as to why a daemon weapon would hurt its owner was good but it still doesnt make sense to me in relation to a character like Typhus for instance. I mean, he's the damn herald of nurgle. Nurgle's man in Amsterdam, his Avatar in the material world. Nurgle's Knight in Shining (slimey) Armour. You would've thought nurgle would take the daemon in Typhus' manreaper aside and said "you mess with him and you're dead meat." It just doesn't seem fluffy to me that nurgle would allow one of his minions to impede one of his other minions when the latter is so vitally important.

[Brother Nihm]

I agree, I've always felt that the major god specific special characters and Abaddon should have the Daemonic Mastery skill (Abaddon used to have it), letting them ignore rolls of '1'.

 

Let lesser Lords worry about controlling their temperamental weapons.

[40kChrista]

If, for whatever reason, though, you do feel obligated to play a Lord, give the Daemon Weapons--especially the Blissgiver, the Deathscreamer, and the one for the unmarked Lord--some serious consideration. They take him from being a marginally acceptable combat charcter in a real face-kicker.

 

i'll agree with you there for sure Cale, i pinched a unit of Plague Marines between my Greater Demon and a Blissgiver(which rolled a 6 ;) )... the resulting combat wasn't pretty for the PM's. so... much ... instant death... can't stop.

 

Grim

[Primarch Naogedd]

Also, don't forget the Plaguebringer; it outmatches the undivided Daemon Weapon on everything not T3 or less. Rerollable 4+ is better than 3+.

[Rain]

Yep, rerollable 4+ is 75% and 3+ is 66%. Also nurgle weapon is much better when facing MC's.

[Cale]

Yeah, that's true. For some reason, I was thinking that you only got the re-roll against models with toughness lower than your strength, rather than equal-to. That does make the Plaguebringer pretty flatly better than the unmarked Daemon Weapon.

[Primarch Naogedd]

Unless you're fighting guard/horde nids; but it won't make much difference anyway in that case.

[Cale]

No, even there you'll have re-rollable 3s from the Nurgle Daemon Weapon and plain old 2s from the Unmarked Daemon Weapon. 8/9 is better than 5/6. The change to the poison rules actually has just made the Plaguebringer strictly better than the unmarked weapon, barring the cost of the Mark of Nurgle.

[chillin]

I've been using the unmarked lord - D weop & wings, my last few games, and I must say I'm rather impressed. I had been under the impression that the lord was the worst of our HQ choices, but this guy has been kicking arse lately. He may not be as good as the nurgle D. weop lord but, he's been wking pretty well for me lately.

[minigun762]

I've been using the unmarked lord - D weop & wings, my last few games, and I must say I'm rather impressed. I had been under the impression that the lord was the worst of our HQ choices, but this guy has been kicking arse lately. He may not be as good as the nurgle D. weop lord but, he's been wking pretty well for me lately.

 

Well the Undivided Daemon Weapon does have the added benefit of being alot cheaper than the Nurgle one when you factor in the Mark as Cale said.

 

Lord, Daemon Weapon and Jump Pack makes for a pretty cost effective HQ unit that can be fairly killy.

 

 

I'm curious if people are still finding Blissgiver to be useful, now that everyone and their dog has Eternal Warrior or equivalent. Slight exaggeration, but I'm seeing that between Eternal Warrior and Synapse, alot of things are immune to ID now.

[40kChrista]

i find it useful, as far as Eternal Warrior/instant death immunity... yes there are a lot of things getting immunity to instant death, however most Troops are not immune to it. i keep the Lord with the Blissgiver mobile, wings, and he can turn a fight quickly. if he's not character hunting he's Troop hunting.

 

Grim

[the jeske]

yeah but most troops are 1W and a nurgle lord or a undived one are better at taking down troops.

[40kChrista]

yeah.... i have an undivided one in my army as well, and use the Blissgiver primarily for character hunting. barring that denying my opponent scoring

units is just as viable, to me anyways.

 

and if you get a good roll, say a 6, thats 9 instant deaths and thats going to break most squads. i think all the Demon Weapons are good for troop munching, except maybe the Death Screamer but i might have been having bad rolls with it. wether one is better at it than another is really an arbitrary point.

[the jeske]

thats 9 instant deaths and thats going to break most squads. i think all the Demon Weapons are good for troop munching, except maybe the D

going a bit over the top here man . you still have to hit with those [on+3 =that makes it what 6 hits , math hammer guys are better at this am sure] and the you have to wound as as lord str is 4 and most stuff is t4its on +4 [what for me means =3 dead guys . now if you charged a chaos or sw unit or an assault unit in general the lord may just have died , if he went in alone]

[40kChrista]

he never goes alone, and i said if the roll is good... dice don't always do what you want, but i'm willing to take the gamble.

 

Grim

[the jeske]

am just saying he is not going to take 9 man thats a false claim m ,because the roll is not good its not normal 9X+3 and then 9x+4 can one of the math hammer guys check what is the chance of getting that ?

[Zealot Of Chaos]

I have probably got this wrong but

 

1728/46656 which is 0.037 reoccuring or 1/27

 

the odds are essentially 1 out of every 27 times

[Cale]

Let's say you've got your Slaaneshi lord with his mount and his Daemon Weapon charging. That's 4 attacks base, one for the charge, and d6 for the weapon.

 

Now, presuming you roll a six, you'll get 11 attacks. Against marines, that leaves you with a 0.137% chance (about 1/730) of getting 9 kills.

 

That's pretty miniscule.