angels of death Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 hi, i have recently decided to create a fallen angels army based on the dark angels minituares and i cant decide which units fir them the best? so does anyone have any advise or help for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I'd avoid cult units and marks of chaos save for that of chaos undivided. The Fallen Angels are all veterans from the time of the Horus Heresy, so a fair few Chosen units would be quite characterful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1709539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen angels Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 i suggest a few bikes that once belonged to the ravenwing and maybe some terminators from the deathwing might add a nice touch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1709548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 No Deathwing, no Ravenwing. Those formations were founded after the betrayal of the fallen, in direct response to the Dark Angels self imposed task to hunt them down, so the Fallen could not have any of them. Normal Bikes, of course. Terminators, perhaps, but since the Fallen were those Dark Angels that were left behind on Caliban while Johnson was out there and fighting in the crusade, they would probably not have had many Terminators, if any at all. The fallen are usually lone individuals, since they all got scattered across space and time, but the Codex Dark Angels does mention the possibility of larger groupd of them. I would say basic Chaos Space Marines or Chosen would be the most appropriate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1709688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarcis Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 As legatus has said your basic Chaos units would be most suitable, it would definitely be more fluffy to avoid having too many terminators, tanks, dreadnoughts or any similar units that the fallen would not have easy access to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1709930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Bacis csm's and chosen csm's, with only IoCU if any icon at all. Maybe havoc's w/ hvy or assault weops as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1709959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Of Malfeasance X Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 typically you would never see an entire squad of fallen angels. Each fallen angel IS a 10,000+ year veteran; no way around it, and they're not recruiting. What is much more likely is a single fallen angel chaos lord or sorcerer leading whatever you want to field as part of some arcane purpose. Maybe in apocalypse you could use abbadon's council to represent an actual gathering of such incomparable experience and power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Each fallen angel IS a 10,000+ year veteran; no way around it They were scattered across space and time. So from time to time (real time, that is) some fallen might appear somewhere in the galaxy who were just taken from Caliban in M31. For them all the events of the treachery happened just moments ago, and they are not veterans of 10,000 years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 typically you would never see an entire squad of fallen angels. That may be true, but it's not very usefull for gaming purposes is it ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Each fallen angel IS a 10,000+ year veteran; no way around it They were scattered across space and time. So from time to time (real time, that is) some fallen might appear somewhere in the galaxy who were just taken from Caliban in M31. For them all the events of the treachery happened just moments ago, and they are not veterans of 10,000 years. The rules also stste that Cypher 'attracts' The Fallen in some way. So therefore it is reasonable to have a squad (maybe 2) in an army with Cypher. There was an old story in a complilation that has a DA awakening 10,000 yrs after a battle during the HH as a loyalist and being found by a Fallen who harnessed his anger and shock to get him to the cusp of turning to chaos. So it is possible for a Fallen to gain a postion of power (planetary governor or military leader?) and attempt to 'collect' any other DA who emerge near him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen angels Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 i had a bit of fluff you could use and that is that a fallen angel commander went on a long quest to find all the last scattered fallen and that he was in many battles with dark angels and would teach them the ways of the fallen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 typically you would never see an entire squad of fallen angels. Each fallen angel IS a 10,000+ year veteran; no way around it, and they're not recruiting. What is much more likely is a single fallen angel chaos lord or sorcerer leading whatever you want to field as part of some arcane purpose. Maybe in apocalypse you could use abbadon's council to represent an actual gathering of such incomparable experience and power. A good amount of Chaos Legionnaires are also 10,000 years old and yet armies of them gather all the time. I think a better argument is that the Fallen are probably reclusive and secretive and would so avoid gathering in large groups although GW had a mission on their site that specifically involved a squad of Fallen hunted by the DA, although the Fallen are taken as a single squad in a larger Chaos army. So I agree that an army of Fallen is probably not practical from a fluff standpoint, a squad seems ok and would be aptly represented by Chaos Chosen as those are also in theory 10,000 years old even though their lackluster stats don't seem to show it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I have a few fallen in my army. They are special weapons, chosen, possessed, and one of my lords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen angels Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 i think that you could say that the fallen had finnaly after many thousand years become strong enough in numbers to form a small army and started to destroy small patrol groups of dark angels one by one, and they had become so strong in numbers they took over a small planet and made it their own. they where able to keep this planet so secret that no one knew about it. and any one who came close to the planet where lured to the way of chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I have Fallen in my army too! :ph34r: They're chained, ripped apart, eviscerated, crufified, and etc on my Interrogator Chaplain's Land Raider! :) Sure, I get queasy looks from little kids, sure I get strange looks, sure it looks more Chaos-y than regular Chaos Land Raiders, sure it cost me roughly over a 100 dollars to make, but damnit, this is what happens when you mess with an Interrogator Chaplain! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen angels Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 dont worry leethal i have a shredded interragator chaplain hanging of the back of my fallen lords bike!!! i love playing the dark angels in grudge matches and seeing their face when they look at half the chaplain getting dragged around on the back of a speeding bike :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'm assuming that's when you use your Chaos Codex. Since the DA don't have a "bike" option for our HQ's. Let alone our special ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen angels Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 correct i dont like to use the DA codex much because i get bagged alot at my local club because their are two other DA players their so i like to make them with chaos side of life Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 For me I will be adding a unit of Chosen as Fallen Angels to my Iron Warriors for a local tournament. Champ being model as Cypher :) Just in my mind with the new flank rule, just see the unit of fallen come on & trying to gain there own goals be it for chaos, etc... Also it just a little suprise as my aim for the local tournament to get painting/army award. As for army of them, I just keep a way from the chaos thing by this I mean Daemon Prince, Possessed, Spawns. Then again a few Fallen do turn complete chaos marine & if you seen the comic strip/book Bloodquest there a Fallen Angel who led the armies of Tzenntch (sp?) For bike squads, could alway model them as jet bikes that where use a lot in pre-heresy just heavy battle damnge them. Saying this I rememeber many, many years ago when Chaos codex came out in 3rd Ed & the Arrmaggedon (sp?) campign been & gone. In my old local store of Stirling one of the vet gamers had a really nice Fallen Angels force from what I rememeber he had Lord with bodyguards Lot of Vets (when we could take them as troops, this was before codex 3.5) A unit of Raptor (he use the Sister of battle jump packs with the metal robe DA models) I think he had a unit of Havocs Was very well painted & converted from what I rememeber. Humm.... maybe try fit my unit chosen into a army of Fallen Angels. Basicly I would try keep to the Red Corsier frame of mind as said with way of unit eg: not many Daemons, etc... Could have your chaos lord model as Cypher if you wish?? be a good background reason for a little more fallen to gather around. Hope this helps & rememeber it your army so go with what you like & what look cool. IP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianBlessed Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Theres the Graham Mcneil "Unforgiven" story in Let the galaxy burn that describes an encounter between a small group of fallen and some loyalist dark angels. They had a mutated dreadnought which was basically a Defiler. The chaos forces in that story would be best described as a LATD army rather than a CSM army. If the Fallen are still operating in groups I think they would be acting in a clandestine manner, somewhat similar to the Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I have Fallen in my army too! ohmy.gif They're chained, ripped apart, eviscerated, crufified, and etc on my Interrogator Chaplain's Land Raider! ...because the Dark Angels like to parade around with their captured fallen, for everyone to see? :) i had a bit of fluff you could use and that is that a fallen angel commander went on a long quest to find all the last scattered fallen and that he was in many battles with dark angels and would teach them the ways of the fallen If all the fallen were together, and the Dark Angels regularly encoutered them, that would make the DA's lives so much easier. And that of the fallen so much harder. Also, I don't think a fallen angel commander could "teach the Dark Angels the ways of the fallen". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen angels Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 in my fallen army i decided to make my lord cyphers secret apprentice his name is "syrial" he was trained by cypher and was given a single squad of fallen as a starting force from his mentor cypher which then he expanded the small force into a fully fledged force by knocking off small ravenwing patrols and taking their bikes and speeders then they would dissapear back to their headquarters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1710856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 in my fallen army i decided to make my lord cyphers secret apprentice his name is "syrial" he was trained by cypher and was given a single squad of fallen as a starting force from his mentor cypher which then he expanded the small force into a fully fledged force by knocking off small ravenwing patrols and taking their bikes and speeders then they would dissapear back to their headquarters That makes little to no fluff sense. Small Ravenwing patrols? Umm...no. They travel in force, with the Deathwing RIGHT behind them. Cypher never leads Fallen. He leads them along to be caught by the Dark Angels. If anything he's Alpharius in disguise. Cypher is indeed one of 10,000 year old Veteran. I have yet to see any fluff where he "trained" anyone nor anything. ' And where the hell would Cypher get a squad of Fallen to hand out? Fallen are a rare commodity. I think you'd just be better off with a Fallen Angel, gathering a band of disillusioned Renegades or Unmarked Chaos Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1711415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widowmaker Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 hi, i have recently decided to create a fallen angels army based on the dark angels minituares and i cant decide which units fir them the best? so does anyone have any advise or help for me. I reckon the best way to start is to decide what kind of Fallen Army you want. Do you want 1) Recently Fallen (ie just after the heresy) - this can also double as an Army with a light Soul Drinker's Motif - they see themselves working for the Emperor, not the Imperium, but they have no mutations, and follow no gods etc. In which case, using C:SM is probably the way forward. 2) Fallen, but not mutated much - This is the true Soul Drinkers model - Some of the higher echelon individuals might be mutated slightly (see Sarpedon), but mainly it is just unmutated troopers. In this case, I'd use C:CSM, but stay away from the more Chaosy things - ie no Defilers, no Possessed, no Daemons, but Daemon Princes and Marks of Chaos (whether god specific or undivided) can be argued to suggest either misguided gifts (again see Sarpedon) or to show psychosis (give mark of khorne to assault squads to show their desire to charge into battle) 3) the Full on Fallen army - Either for those who got fed up with the Imperium, or for those who fell at the time of the heresy and have been subjected to the warp since then. Obviously use C:CSM and the crazier the better. FYI - My Fallen army initially started in the second bracket, but became closer to the third once I thought about it more. I modelled it on the original Word Bearers rules - assuming that they'd have charasmatic guys leading them on (The Dark Apostle rules seemed appropriate to the Fallen - especially after the short story with the fallen chaplain who collected rosarius from Interrogators like the interrogators collected black pearls) Can't do that any more, but... There is no reason in any of the fluff to suggest you can't have access to any of todays entries. Terminator Armour existed before the Heresy, so the Dark Angels on Caliban probably had some of the suits. No reason why they shouldn't have survived the fall. Maintenance should not be any more difficult for the Fallen than for any of the other legions Bikes existed before the heresy, and we know that the Ravenwing existed in Pre-El'Jonson days of Caliban. No reason why it shouldn't have survived the fall. Dreadnoughts existed before the fall, and we know from Unforgiven that there are at least some that fell to chaos. Similar reasons and explanations exist for tanks. Landspeeders will obviously only work if you decide you want to use C:SM approach (Why the Chapter who decides to turn traitor tomorrow can't take their speeders with them is a question discussed in other areas of the board) On the other hand, if you want access to C:CSM only things like defilers and possessed, there is nothing to stop you taking them with the simple phrase "well, they're chaos aren't they?" Whether your fluff has your army appearing as a whole yesterday (as mentioned above, the Fallen were scattered through time and space, so this might be their first arrival) or whterh they have been covertly gathering for a while, the Fallen have been around for a while, so Chosen are a good choice. The standard objection to a Fallen army is that the Fallen are never seen as an army. Well, I disagree. The galaxy is a big place, and the Ravenwing cannot be everywhere at once. This group could be together as a once only thing, they may have been caught in the Eye of Terror for millenia, it could be a particularly convincing individual has persuaded a bunch of traitor marines from whatever legion to paint their armour in the livery of the dark angels (who know what plot it furthers), or as mentioned above, it could be the first time this particular army has made it into real space after the Fall. Also bear in mind that the fluff talks about the original Dark Angels legion as having many many chapters (see Angels of Darkness). After the fall there are what? The Dark angels and a handful of chapters each with 1,000 marines? What happened to the other many thousands? Were they all killed? I think it perfectly acceptable to say that of those many thousands, your 30 marines all ended up in this particular time and space together. There are certainly stranger things going on in this universe. in my fallen army i decided to make my lord cyphers secret apprentice his name is "syrial" he was trained by cypher and was given a single squad of fallen as a starting force from his mentor cypher which then he expanded the small force into a fully fledged force by knocking off small ravenwing patrols and taking their bikes and speeders then they would dissapear back to their headquarters I'm not sure why they'd need to knock off the Ravenwing specifically for their bikes (is there any difference between Dark Angel bikes and Black Templar bikes - other than annoying the Dark Angels when they keep losing bikes of course), but I say why not? According to the Heresy novel, Cypher isn't "a guy" so much as "a position" which might explain why Cypher keeps popping up all over the place and why he seems to escape certain death again and again. And if it's a position, there's no reason why the position shouldn't have an apprentice. Anyways - that's my 2 cents and hopefully it give you some ideas. My opinion's no more valid than anyone elses, but if you can find a good enough reason to back up your ideas, there's no reason you can't have any army you want. Cheers Widowmaker Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1711598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Cypher has his own God as well. Who? That's the mystery. A God powerful enough to whisk him away from heavily guarded Strike Cruisers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147410-the-fallen-angels/#findComment-1711818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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