Bobman Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 In the FAQ it says we got to use the Marine codex for points costs for preds and stuff but not transports. Does this means we still use the costs in our codex, and if so does that mean we can't use upgades for Razorbacks (lascannons) as we have to refer to the Marine codex for that? Having to buy yet another codex for this stuff is getting annoying now. Yours confusingly Bobman out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 We have a discussion already here. You´re right, we must the entries for Razorbacks and Rhinos from the new C:SM. Our ´dex is not a standalone ´dex. I think they had forgotten the Rhino and the Razorback in the english FAQ (they´re included in the german one). It´s quit simple like you have already mentioned: Where in our C:SW is it written how many points i have to pay to equip my Razor with a TLLC? Simple answer: Nowhere. It´s only written in C:SM. Or an other question: Where is it written what upgrades can i give a rhino? The answer: C:SM. The english FAQ is wrong/incomplete, that´s it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 Sorry to bang on but. So were using the upgades (extra armour) now too, as well as options (Tllc) from C:SM. I had a scan through that other thread couldn't see it. Bobman out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 This is also discussed in the "silly questions" thread. People have mixed feelings about it, but I think a lot of us are referring to the German FAQ as inspiration to accept we use all the costs in the new C:SM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 The english FAQ is wrong/incomplete, that´s it. there is not such things as a wrong FAQ . you should [or rather have to] play with the rules gave in it . if the FAQ [and the english one is always the ruling and most important one]says only tanks , then its only tanks . Otherwise you would have to use all pts costs for all gear from c sm . do you pay more for plasma and more for power weapons and fists ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am going to go ahead and disagree with you there. But, I also have no intention to play in 'official' tournaments (as in, nothing that isnt handled on the local level), so I will cover it with the locals first. The price of the wargear our troops take is offset by the price of our troops. I love how folks talking about vehicle costs ALWAYS bring that up. No, I wont take the new costs for Power Fists, nor will I take their costs for Chaplains or Tac Squads. I WILL however take their costs for Rhino's and whatever upgrades for it I get, just like I will for Land Raiders and upgrades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 No, I wont take the new costs for Power Fists, nor will I take their costs for Chaplains or Tac Squads. thats easy to do considering SW dont have any of those . :tu: I WILL however take their costs for Rhino's and whatever upgrades for it I get, just like I will for Land Raiders and upgrades. what is different from what the FAQ tells us to do as it clearlly says what kind of a units we can or cant use from the sm . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I know we dont have any of those.. that was my point. Our troops cost different, which means our wargear will as well. Like I said, the German FAQ covers it, so I think it was an oversight with the English one. I will be taking all my vehicle point costs from C:SM, just like I did all through 4th ed. It was only in the last few weeks since I got active again that I was told that some folks still use the vehicle prices in our codex. In 4th, the cost was the same for Rhino/Razorback, and we have had to refer to C:SM for DP's since they came out. I am just going to carry that over and do it with the new C:SM. We use their vehicle prices and their upgrades. You play it how you like, thats just what I am doing. Seems like the most fair thing to me overall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Check the French Faq... and lets see what the italian one says once they get theres up from 4.1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Like I said, the German FAQ covers it, so I think it was an oversight with the English one. till the 4th ed the english version of any rule [dex , faq , errata etc ] was always the ruling one . plus rules are not there to be fair , I mean a DA player could as well say "hey I think that our weaker rules for combat squads etc are not fair , am going to use the ones from codex sm " . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Check the French Faq... and lets see what the italian one says once they get theres up from 4.1. Now, lets be realistic... nothing from France has ever trumped something from Germany. :) If the German FAQ said all DA players must wear dresses like their models, then by god, the french players will be buying them the next day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Like I said, the German FAQ covers it, so I think it was an oversight with the English one. till the 4th ed the english version of any rule [dex , faq , errata etc ] was always the ruling one . plus rules are not there to be fair , I mean a DA player could as well say "hey I think that our weaker rules for combat squads etc are not fair , am going to use the ones from codex sm " . The differenceis that DA's, like the new BAs codex is entirely independant of the C:SM. I wouldnt be suprised if a DA faq eventually surficed that gave them a few new options and a couple points changes... Codex: Space Wolves is like the old BA codex, or the salamanders codex... it refers to codex space marines for reference on almost everything. And BTW- Alot of people are saying that. Most of them are looking at their codex and saying: I can do all of this, and more, in the new space marine codex. Except for Special Characters there are few if any compelling reasons to stick with the origional codex. Heck the new dex even gives them Combat Squads! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1710781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 I don't understand why anyone would think that we take vehicle upgrades from the SM codex, something we have never done. Where we have gone to their codex for the vehicles we have never for upgrades. The problem with the transports is technically we've got to use the points costs in our dex, then go to the SM one for rules (which ours doesn't have) which has the upgrades with the rules, then go back to ours to buy our upgrades. If the Marine one is like BA/DA then we'll buy a rhino for **pts which will have smoke launchers and search light, then buy extra armour for *pts from our dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1711342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I don't understand why anyone would think that we take vehicle upgrades from the SM codex, something we have never done. Where we have gone to their codex for the vehicles we have never for upgrades. The problem with the transports is technically we've got to use the points costs in our dex, then go to the SM one for rules (which ours doesn't have) which has the upgrades with the rules, then go back to ours to buy our upgrades. If the Marine one is like BA/DA then we'll buy a rhino for **pts which will have smoke launchers and search light, then buy extra armour for *pts from our dex. Actually it's quite the opposite, we've used the points from C:SM for our tanks and upgrades as always. From talking to officials they want us (in the US I didn't discuss other countries sorry) to use our codex for the rhino and razorback (even pointing out to them the German FAQ, which they then said it takes no precedence with the U.S) and upgrades for them in our codex. Then for the other vehicles (preds, land raiders, dreads, etc.) to use the C:SM and vehicle upgrades from the C:SM. This is how they explained: "The U.S FAQ is to be used for all events in the U.S. It clearly doesn't state rhinos or razorbacks as an option to take from the C:SM or the upgrades for them." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1711437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Devil Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Our codex does say in the Grey Hunter and Blood Claw entries; Rhino + :) pts (see Transport Entry for upgrade options). To me this says use the point values for the options from the new codex for Rhinos and Razorbacks and the SW codexes for the base point value. The Venerable Dread and LRE are screwed since the new codex doesn't have a Space Marine Armoury. So no options for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1711676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Wolf - Good to know. Ok then, I guess I will be taking Rhino's, Razorbacks, and their upgrades from our codex. Same as Ven Dread/LRE (if the new SM Codex doesnt have an armory for vehicles, which I doubt.. but will have to wait for friday to see for sure). Just a few more days... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1711713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 The problem I see is that our codex doesn't have razorback entries. So you'll buy a razor for **pts then go to the other codex for rules where it'll give you options for TLLC at **pts. making that combination ludicrous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 The problem I see is that our codex doesn't have razorback entries. So you'll buy a razor for **pts then go to the other codex for rules where it'll give you options for TLLC at **pts. making that combination ludicrous. That's just the thing, you don't get the extra razorback options found in C:SM (plasma guns and such) but you do get the HB and LC because the points are there, you're just not looking hard enough. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Can you point me to a page then please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Can you point me to a page then please? I'm pretty sure the LC one is in there, I know for a fact the HB variant is, but currently I'm in a lab and have no access to the codex so I don't know the specific page, I was almost positive the points costs for the LC is there as well. If not this creates quite a problem because then we don't have access to the LC variant either... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 there are no transport entries in the wolf codex, you paying **pts for a razorback or rhino, and thats it, they have no stats, they have no weapon options, they have nothing, and since the FAQ and codex says nothing about referring to the Marine codex, it technically by RAW means space wolves don't actually have a transport with capacity, weapons, or armor. of course we all know RAW is a pile of worthless crud, so I'd say just use the marine codex entries Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Which is what I'm gonna do till someone argues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 there are no transport entries in the wolf codex, you paying **pts for a razorback or rhino, and thats it, they have no stats, they have no weapon options, they have nothing, and since the FAQ and codex says nothing about referring to the Marine codex, it technically by RAW means space wolves don't actually have a transport with capacity, weapons, or armor. of course we all know RAW is a pile of worthless crud, so I'd say just use the marine codex entries Exactly what i said all the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Ok, frack all of this.. I am just using the points cost for everything that isnt specifically spelled out in our codex from C:SM. Its just easier. Right or wrong, until the FAQ specifies, I am using ALL vehicle info from C:SM for anything that isnt detailed in our codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I don't know, it gives you the points listed there for rhinos and razorbacks (HB only no LC) and says to refer to the upgrade options in C:SW for additional points. I understand that the armor value and such isn't listed in C:SW... and knowing that C:SW only posts stat lines and points for options that deviate from C:SM, I'm wondering this myself. It's not like the armor would be any different though, the only thing that's changed is our razorbacks can only have HB options now?... I don't know I think this just really needs an FAQ addition bad, just add in rhino and razorback and that would solve one of millions of problems with the FAQ's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147450-points-costs/#findComment-1712683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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