Is spamming PFs still effective?

[Wolf89]

You cant lead bloodclaws with a model in termi armor. I have no idea why. However he can take heavy weapons even in power armor- he just chooses from the power armored list of heavy weapons. The quote in the faq simply states he has access to wolf gaurd heavy weapons.

 

He'd never get a chance to use it, as you can't move and fire the heavy weapons and BC's are useless just standing there so the HQ can fire a las cannon...

 

They can't be lead by a model in TDA because of the sweeping advance rule, and since TDA can't sweeping advance, and BC's must always sweeping advance the FAQ clarifies this:

Q. Can a pack of Blood Claws or Wolf Scouts be led by a Wolf Guard in Terminator armour? A. No it can’t. Note that this rule is an amendment more than a clarification but removes the need for more clarifications to resolve contradictions that the combination creates. In all other circumstances, units led by Wolf Guard in Terminator armour cannot sweeping advance after close combat, but can consolidate.

[Grey Mage]

I didnt say giving him the heavy weapon was a good idea with a DP unit of BC's, just that it could be done. The Multimelta doesnt seem a horrible choice though... just not a great one.

[Wolf89]

I wish a heavy flamer was an option for power armor... that would be fun... :D

[the jeske]

like in the new sm dex ;)

[Wolf89]

like in the new sm dex :P

 

Exactly like sternguard and LotD :)

[WG Vrox]

Well, I have a different reason all together on why spamming PF is still effective...

 

Initiative and Initiateve results. Let's talk PWs: Let's say you get lucky and are able to assult with 11 BCs and you have 3 PWs within that squad. We roll 32 dice, averages being, 8X4=32dice, 32/2=16, 16/2=8 wounds, all still happening on I-4 we roll the PWs 3x4=12 dice, 12/2=6, 6/2 =3 so we have 11 wounds, against an average size squad of 10. What two dice will he choose to doulbe up on when he is allocating wounds, the two pw hits of course, killing the same model with a pw wound.

 

 

If we take the same approach with PFs in a squad. 8 wounds happening on I-4 get allocated, then we move on to PFs I-1, 3x2=6, 6/2=3 and we average 2.5 wounds rounded up cause we are SWs and that how we roll. He now has 3 none saving wounds he must allocate to three seperate models. even if we round down and dish out 2 wounds, we still deal out the same number of wounds and have the ability to take on larger foes if needed.

 

Considering the above and GHs, you can see why PFs are even a better option for them as they don't get the extra +2 attack on the charge.

 

Possibly another thought for all you thinkers out there.

 

Sgt. Vrox over

[Wolf89]

Well your theory is correct in some respects. First the tactical squad consists of very similar models without the ability for different wargear besides a weapon here or there. So even though putting a pw wound on the same model twice sounds good, unless he puts both on say a missile launcher, or the plasma gunner, he's got 7+ similar models that if he puts on one of them then he's going to kill 2 models instead of 1 off with allocating 2 pw wounds to one model. However this isn't something I expect a veteran to make as a mistake, I bet you'll see a lot others messing up this wound allocation and killing off 2 guys instead of one like you posted. :P

 

Second, for the power fists you rolled you had 3x2, when it's 3x3 (2 attacks extra on charge) so that's 9 total, 4.5 hit then I'd say 4 wounds (.75 so it'd be 3.75 rounding up because of my weighted dice...)

 

But I do get what you're saying, as I've seen this quite often with my 13th company getting an insane amount of attacks. Being somewhat of an advantage to the smarter player.

[Roland Durendal]

Why wouldnt furious charge activate on Countercharge? I thought you gained ALL the benefits of charging...

 

 

That's an interesting point. Part of me thinks that that would be extreme nitpicking and that we'd only get +1 A, as it states we get the +1 A as if we charged. But on the other hand, the line "as if the unit charged" (or whatnot I don't have the RB in front of me at work), would imply that any bonuses accrued by charging would therefore apply during counter-attack and so BC's w/ Furious Charge would then have FC on the counter attack. Which would be extremely powerful. They would basically be a permanent first round S5 I5 troop.

 

With that being said, I would love to see the BCs get Furious Charge on the counter attack <_<

[Battle-Brother Wags]

Why wouldnt furious charge activate on Countercharge? I thought you gained ALL the benefits of charging...

 

 

That's an interesting point. Part of me thinks that that would be extreme nitpicking and that we'd only get +1 A, as it states we get the +1 A as if we charged. But on the other hand, the line "as if the unit charged" (or whatnot I don't have the RB in front of me at work), would imply that any bonuses accrued by charging would therefore apply during counter-attack and so BC's w/ Furious Charge would then have FC on the counter attack. Which would be extremely powerful. They would basically be a permanent first round S5 I5 troop.

 

With that being said, I would love to see the BCs get Furious Charge on the counter attack :lol:

 

I don't think you could claim that all assault benefits take place in the counterattack. Why?

 

1. It specifically says one benefit of charging (+1 to attacks). "+1 attack" is sort of like a qualifier for "as if they charged." If the rule simply said, "Models who have counterattack act as if they were assaulting when they make the reaction move," then you could claim that they get all the benefits.

 

2. If BCs got the furious charge benefit on the counterattack (this, of course, assuming they actually had the rule), then think of the consquences across the board. Howling Banshees would ALWAYS strike first in the first round of close combat, no matter what. Anything with furious charge would, of course, still have it. I cringe at the thought of BTs taking that vow . . . If you got full charging benefits from this rule, there would be alot of uber units out there with few weaknesses. The main counter-tactic to current BCs is to be the one charging them. Yeah, you can shoot them, but as far as close combats go, they're actually rather bad at absorbing an attack. If the rule was that they got the full benefit even when they were assaulted, no matter what, well then, I just have to say "whoa." And not only them, of course, but all the units that have those special rules.

 

The better argument is #1, however. The rule specifically cites one aspect of the charging effects, not all of them.

[Grey Mage]

Howling banshees do NOT have counter attack... if they did... oh that would be incredible. But they do not. They have Fleet.

[Wolf89]

Howling banshees do NOT have counter attack... if they did... oh that would be incredible. But they do not. They have Fleet.

 

Exactly, I think Wags you're getting the wrong idea here. The reason why we get that bonus as if we charged is due to counter attack, we take a Ld test and we get the benefits as if we had assaulted ourselves. So in essence yes we'd get furious charge if our BC's had furious charge.

 

Something to note that I think will cool your ideas is that counter attack is something that (from what I read and heard) will be not as abundant in the C:SW as it is now. BC's won't get it, so there's no possibility of getting the extra attacks, or high I and S for the counter. Again this is what RUMORS I've heard, but this is in the same section as them getting furious charge, GH's getting bolter\bp\ccw, and getting back Bjorn.

[Grey Mage]

Just curious, but where is it that your getting all that anyways?

[Battle-Brother Wags]

Howling banshees do NOT have counter attack... if they did... oh that would be incredible. But they do not. They have Fleet.

 

Exactly, I think Wags you're getting the wrong idea here. The reason why we get that bonus as if we charged is due to counter attack, we take a Ld test and we get the benefits as if we had assaulted ourselves. So in essence yes we'd get furious charge if our BC's had furious charge.

 

Actually Howling Banshees can very easily have counter-attack. The HB Exarch can take the "Acrobatics" ability for a mere fist-full of points and the unit gains counterattack, easy as that. So the Howling Banshee idea still works.

 

I still think you guys are stretching it to say that the counter-attack USR allows more than it says, namely, an extra attack as if the unit had charged, NOT all benefits of charging as if the unit had charged.