How have the Alpha Legion survived until now?

[Cyrox]

I have a question about post heresy Alpha Legion, and I apologise if its been asked before.

 

After the seige and Horus' death, the Traitor legions fled into the Eye of Terror, but the Alpha Legion chose to stay in the Imperium hiding out, or so its rumoured.

 

So if they aren't affected by the warp in the EoT, and they didn't ally themselves to a praticular Chaos god, then how did they survive for 10,000 years??

 

Now i haven't read Legion yet, so if the answer is in there don't crucify me LOL

 

Ta

[gil galed]

they just survive? lots of people seem to have lasted a long time, maybe space marines simply dont die from old age, or else alpha is recruiting

[CorinoFan]

I would take the position of it being a bit of both. Space Marines are technically Immortal, as said in the fluff. but they can still die so that would mean a slow decrease in numbers anyway, so to replace those numbers they would of had to have recruited.

[Cyrox]

Well Dante is meant to be the oldest living Marine at 1100

 

I thought Marines aged, albiet slowly, plus most die in battle before they get old

[Senseilord Ashahara]

And they still don't spend _all_ their time in realspace.

I would also suggest that as they aren't throwing themselves into the worship of one (or any depending on your opinions) deity, they're not running as much of the risk of Spawndom vrs Daemonhood as the other Legions, so last longer there too.

[gil galed]

Well Dante is meant to be the oldest living Marine at 1100

 

I thought Marines aged, albiet slowly, plus most die in battle before they get old

 

but fluff wise people like luther are meant to have been in prisoned by the dark angels for over 10,000 years,

[Cyrox]

True, plus Cyper is out there wandering around too. ;)

 

So i guess the big question then is 'Are Space Marines immortal?'

 

If they didn't fight would they live forever.... surely not?

[Senseilord Ashahara]

The original Marines are described as "functionally immortal".

Wether 'modern' marines are is speculative due to a) constant war leads to constant casulties ;) degredation of Geneseed and churgory allowing flaws to accend and go untreated.

[Brother Nihm]

It has never been established if members of the Alpha Legion exhibit the same unnatural longevity as other Chaos Space Marines, who can apparently live for many thousands of years. This phenomenon is generally attributed to the Traitor Legions' existence in the Eye of Terror, where the laws of time and space do not apply, so it would follow that the Alpha Legion should not be affected. However, if Alpha Legion Space Marines have more 'normal' lifespans, then one must ask how losses are replaced. In his address to the Ikrilla Conclave, an impassioned Inquisitor Kravin warned "the only possible answer is that new Chaos Space Marines are being recruited and genetically modified somewhere within the Imperium. And yet Terra still refuses to acknowledge there is even a serious threat! They are all around us - just look over your shoulder! Perhaps when you are attacked in your own cities, and murdered in your own homes, then you will see I am right."

 

My theory is that they do indeed recruit from outside The Eye, and they also work long-term to subvert loyalist marines to their cause.

[Eloies]

During the great crusade the geneseed was perfect. So thoose marines from that era are more or less immortal (garro mention something about the irony about being imortal when you are a tool for war and will proberly never live that long). But since the Hersey the High Lords and AM have proberly done som weird stuff to the geneseed stored at mars to make 'em last to make more chapters. When they do this I imagine that the geneseed won't be as perfect as the Crusade area-seed. That's my thought about the seed. And for the Alpha Legion. They would still have much of their herseyera-seed and their battle losses would proberly be recruted back as they did under the crusade.

 

My thoughts at least.

[Tokunator]

There is a bit of fluff in the new Chaos Codex in which they have managed to infiltrate a Loyalist chapter over centuries by planting subliminal messages into the minds of the gangs that they chose their recruits from. Even with Librarians scanning the initiates, enough passed through over the years and in the end the Alpha Legionnaires triggered them whilst attacking the chapter's homeworld. Together with the corrupted Marines, they killed the Marines that were unaffected and took the corrupted Marines with them. Supposedly, they could do the same again, maybe only on smaller scale (individual Marines or squads), but they could use that to refill their numbers.

 

They are also involved in many anti-imperial Cults, so they will probably recruit the best young members to turn them into Marines.

[Cyrox]

Yeah, it kind of suit the Alpha Legion to have them recruiting sneakily :P

[Gideon Bane]

There is a bit of fluff in the new Chaos Codex in which they have managed to infiltrate a Loyalist chapter over centuries by planting subliminal messages into the minds of the gangs that they chose their recruits from. Even with Librarians scanning the initiates, enough passed through over the years and in the end the Alpha Legionnaires triggered them whilst attacking the chapter's homeworld. Together with the corrupted Marines, they killed the Marines that were unaffected and took the corrupted Marines with them. Supposedly, they could do the same again, maybe only on smaller scale (individual Marines or squads), but they could use that to refill their numbers.

 

They are also involved in many anti-imperial Cults, so they will probably recruit the best young members to turn them into Marines.

 

Suppose that the Alpha Legion is one of those chapters. They are in full control over some chapter that the Imperium still sees as loyal.

[Cyrox]

Just re-read the DA codex, Luther is kept alive in the Rock with a Stasis Field :)

[Badaboom]

Actually, in some non-offical story in the BL forums, the Alpha Legion has deeply inflitrated the Ultramarines for centuries...Isn´t it a delicious irony?

[Razrhaghul]

hmm, Al seems like a more laid back type of CSM, or rather renegades, only really placing themselves in harms way if they need to, for whatever devices they are orchestrating.

also weren't some of them based in/around the Maelstrom?

i'd wonder if they don't just drift in the void and activate their sus-an organs...then have servitors or other active agents re-awaken them.

[Pulse]

So i guess the big question then is 'Are Space Marines immortal?'

The HH novels said that the marines are infact immortal and they would indeed live forever if were to live a peaceful life, except they dont; they are bred to make war and to die in war.

 

I tend to beleive they are immortal. Again though in the HH book "Horus Rising" its written that as a marine grows older his sharpness and reaction time slows down, but still being far above that of a normal human. So they can suffer to a degree from "aging" but i doubt anything more than reaction speed would effect them.

 

Then again, a lot of people seem to suggest a lot as changed since before the Heresy in terms of marine creation. Things like the processes making a marine not being as reliable or the organs being used to many times making them less efficient thus making the marines weaker. Personally i can't see that making much of a difference myself, but there we are. ;)

 

Back on topic: :)

 

I personally can't see the Alpha Legion even being remotely interested in chaos, in any shape or form. They have always relied on themselves and had confidence in their own abilites so why turn to a power that only corrupts? Its one thing that annoys me more than anything, people seem to think because a legion turned traitor they automaticly have to worship chaos or "use its power". Tosh imo.

 

I'd agree with Brother Nihm, i would say the Alpha Legion recruit outside the Eye of Terror, its the only logical thing to do if you have a combat doctorine like theirs.

[Leonaides]

Yes, in the HH books some marines had speculated that marines may in fact be immortal - marines had only been around for approximatly 200 years by then. They did however still show signs of ageing. Just because none of them had yet lived long enough to die of old age doesnt mean that they would. Their ageing process is massively slowed, but NOT stopped, there is a really big difference between long-lived and immortal, though if you're only 200 years into a long life then it probably looks the same.

 

There will of course have been degradation in geneseed over time (its biology, it happens to everything) - just look at teh chapters who no longer have fully functional implants (IF's - I'm looking at you here). The organs aren't re-used, new ones are grown from old ones so there will be errors in replication leading to degeneration.

 

(I really ought to just write out and save a long point-by-point explantion of why they arent immortal, but I just cant be bothered)

 

As for how the Alpha legion continue to survive, a combination of living in smaller warp storms (like the maelstrom), possibly using stasis tech (though that would involve an awful amount of trust in the people on the outside) and normal recruiting (same as loyalist marines I guess, unless the AL turn up covered in chaos markings most normal people probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference between them and loyalists).

[Pulse]

Do you have to come in constantly and point out things are always "speculated" at so and so? Your like Commissar Molotov, a bloody pessimist lol. :RTBBB:

 

Yeh its true about the organs being grown from older ones, i forgot about that when i posted before, so its very likely that flaws will occur during replication.

[Leethal]

Just re-read the DA codex, Luther is kept alive in the Rock with a Stasis Field :P

 

The LION is in a Stasis Field. Luthor is in a cell, crying and screaming.

 

Another thing. Luthor is not a TRUE-Astartes. He's genetically enhanced, but he does not have all 18 thingies. He's just enhanced.

[Leonaides]

The LION is ASLEEP, with the watchers in the dark. Luthor is in a stasis field, and every time a new chapter master is chosen he gets a chance to try to make Luthor repent. He still hasn't (obviously no-one in the 40k universe has tried Teletubbies on repeat on him yet).

[Tokunator]

Even the Inquisition wouldn't be THAT cruel!

[Grey Mage]

Well theres always a few of the none demonic primarchs, some say alpharius is still out there, bjeorn the fell handed, the emperor himself, etc...

 

Id speculate, and I admit its just speculation, but from what I can tell a space marines normal lifespan is about the same as an eldars- 3000-8000 years. Maybe slightly less. Of course later chapters would be working with less origional geneseed... heck, even the first foundings would be. However they have access to origional geneseed from mars, and the alpha legion would have its own stocks somewhere. And of course theres always fabius bile... I wouldnt put it past him to make a life extension system if the price was right.

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

I'm fairly sure they recruit like any other chapter. What would stop them? I'm pretty sure they have apothecaries and they should still regenerate geneseed, so all they's need are recruits, and wth a Million worlds to raid, I'm sure they won't have too much trouble at all.

[Askari]

They probably recruit through cults and planets. I wouldn't be surprised if most of their newer marines don't even wear power armor and instead act as sleeper cells and cult leaders. If you read Legion you'll notice that they almost never really fight themselves and instead will use human agents as their main fighting force while saving themselves for the coup de grace.

 

it seems to me that more damage could be done with a bunch of superhumans leading human worlds into rebellion than a force of power armored marines. Less conspicuous and losses would be less.