Leethal Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Now, are Dreadnoughts considered a "10 man" unit still? Or has their bulk somehow filled up the 12 Model room in the new Droppod? [i do not have the 5th Edition Codex, yet] Now, if the Codex does not "answer" what size the Dreadnoughts are....since there are conflicting Chapter Dreadnought sizes, if the Dreadnought is still the size of a "10 man" squad, and shove him in a Droppod, you would have room for 2 left. Couldn't you shove an IC or 2 in there? Just asking, because the crazy nurgle player in my area, was ranting on a bunch of random crap, but this idea intrigued me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reglor Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 It dosn't matter if the Dreadnought counts as 10 men, 12 men or one man. An IC can't join the Dreadnought in a unit so can't enter the dedicated transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1716079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I was going to suggest that this Nurgle player's mind is being effected by an advanced case of Nurgle's Rot, however I'm not sure how clear cut it is. Page 66 says: A transport may carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of independent characters (as long as they count as infantry), up to a total of models equal to the vehicle’s transport capacity. (Emphasis mine.) Now I might be reading this wrong but it implies ICs can ride the transport, even if they are not part of the unit (which we already know he cannot be 'cos it's a Dread, which is a vehicle). If it was restricted to IC's who are members of the unit, it should really have said "a single unit and any attached characters". Also, page 67 ("Dedicate Transports" boxout) says "plus any independent characters", but still makes no mention of membership of the unit. The main thing I do think would prevent this though, is that (as I read it), the capacity of the pod is 12 infantry or a Dread or a Thunderfire. If this is the correct interpretation, the Dread would be the equivalent of 12 infantry anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1716104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordekiem Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Keep reading Warpspawn, specifically the last paragraph in the left column of pg 67. If an IC joins a unit in a transport they are automatically joined. however, an IC cannot join a dreadnaught unit. hence an IC cannot ride in a transport with a dreadnaught. Reglor is 100% correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1716395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Still not entirely sure about that. That bit reads more like a consequence of embarking, rather than a limitation on embarking so I'm not quite sure what you happen if the IC was unable to join the unit. Can't think of any genuine examples of transportable infantry units that cannot be joined by an IC, though I am not sure whether this rule you refer to would prevent the IC embarking if there were. Either way, I agree that this is not possible so the reason is academic. The reason I choose (which I also think is valid) is that the dread takes up all the space by itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1716819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Well there's the sole fact that a dreadnought is not an 'infantry unit'. It's a vehicle - walker, that simply has it's own, extra, means of transportation. An IC cannot join a vehicle. (even the new SM character doesn't 'join' the tank he's in, he's just embarked in it) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1716860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marius Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Also, as the pod is a dedicated transport, the IC can't start the game inside it unless he has somehow been attached to the dreadnought Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1718216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Ok. Then what happens if the SW HQ dread is podded? could another IC ride with him. I'm not too clear how that HQ interacts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1719104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 The SW being HQ doesn't matter. It's still a vehicle, and IC's cannot join vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1719265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I got that , but can that HQ dread join other units? Or is he a quasi IC like Sammael. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1719380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordekiem Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I got that , but can that HQ dread join other units? Or is he a quasi IC like Sammael. Only ICs can join other units. Just because he is an HQ choice does not make him an IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1719485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Which doesn't answer the question. is the SW dread an IC or just a HQ like Sammael? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1719533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 You would have to look in his description then. And Sammael isn't an IC either, in either form you take him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1719986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I don't play SW and am not sure how they work. I will check their codex next time I'm at the GW store. Thanks for the non answer and restating what I Said about Sammie, as a DA player I am well aware of his non IC status (as I mentioned in my post) Sorry if this comes off cranky but your answer was a total waste of time Ezekail. I'll try the SW section, thanks anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1721198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordekiem Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I don't play SW and am not sure how they work. I will check their codex next time I'm at the GW store. Thanks for the non answer and restating what I Said about Sammie, as a DA player I am well aware of his non IC status (as I mentioned in my post) Sorry if this comes off cranky but your answer was a total waste of time Ezekail. I'll try the SW section, thanks anyway. You are asking for rules from a codex you do not own. We are not allowed to give you those answers. Now, are Dreadnoughts considered a "10 man" unit still? Or has their bulk somehow filled up the 12 Model room in the new Droppod? [i do not have the 5th Edition Codex, yet] BTW, this is clearly answered in the new codex on pg 69 and 135. Once you get your codex you will know the answer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1721408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I don't play SW and am not sure how they work. I will check their codex next time I'm at the GW store. Thanks for the non answer and restating what I Said about Sammie, as a DA player I am well aware of his non IC status (as I mentioned in my post) Sorry if this comes off cranky but your answer was a total waste of time Ezekail. I'll try the SW section, thanks anyway. As Mord said, we cannot just 'give' you rules for something you don't have. (granted, this one is small.. but it bares pointing out) But I can tell you with a rather high degree of certanty, that.. the SW 'Venerable' HQ section dreadnought, is not an IC. Nomatter how many different ways you want to try and bend this, there is simply no way for you to get an IC into a drop pod with a dreadnought. Period. And 'quasi-IC' as you stated, is not the same as 'not an IC. If you meant otherwise, you shouldn't mince your words. Say what you mean, not what you think makes it sound cooler. Nothing about Sammael makes him 'quasi' (sorta, like, similar, etc.) to an IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1721523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 12 infantry, or 1 dreadnought, etc. I dont even know why we have to discuss ICs joining a dreadnought: "A Dreadnought and an IC" =/= "A Dreadnought." Better question: can a dreadnought assault out of a drop pod? I know infantry cant, and it does say under deep strike AND drop pod rules that units cannot assault out of a pod, and I checked the dreadnought/walker entry/rules with this in mind and found nothing. Just wanted to be sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1722547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Which doesn't answer the question. is the SW dread an IC or just a HQ like Sammael? yes I did use the term quasi in an earlier post.In fact it's a good description of him, although could be confusing to non DA players. Being a HQ but not a IC. this post was pretty clear. As i don't play SW ,and do not use drop pods, how would the answer affect me, I was just working thru a thought experiment. As for the rules I was asking for a point to be clarified. Was the SW dread HQ a IC. As he is a vehicle he is not. point cleared. I argee there is no legal way for a IC to ride with a dreadnough in a drop pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1722563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 12 infantry, or 1 dreadnought, etc. I dont even know why we have to discuss ICs joining a dreadnought: "A Dreadnought and an IC" =/= "A Dreadnought." Better question: can a dreadnought assault out of a drop pod? I know infantry cant, and it does say under deep strike AND drop pod rules that units cannot assault out of a pod, and I checked the dreadnought/walker entry/rules with this in mind and found nothing. Just wanted to be sure. I know infantry cant, and it does say under deep strike AND drop pod rules that units cannot assault out of a pod, and I checked the dreadnought/walker entry/rules with this in mind and found nothing. I think the answer is about as clear as it's possible to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1722571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Better question: can a dreadnought assault out of a drop pod? I know infantry cant, and it does say under deep strike AND drop pod rules that units cannot assault out of a pod, and I checked the dreadnought/walker entry/rules with this in mind and found nothing. The Deep striking rule covers any model Deep Striking. It is the general rule for everything. you have it correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1722578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1723830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
relic's blade Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Now, are Dreadnoughts considered a "10 man" unit still? Or has their bulk somehow filled up the 12 Model room in the new Droppod? [i do not have the 5th Edition Codex, yet] Now, if the Codex does not "answer" what size the Dreadnoughts are....since there are conflicting Chapter Dreadnought sizes, if the Dreadnought is still the size of a "10 man" squad, and shove him in a Droppod, you would have room for 2 left. Couldn't you shove an IC or 2 in there? Just asking, because the crazy nurgle player in my area, was ranting on a bunch of random crap, but this idea intrigued me. how ever if i remeber correctly drednoughts no longer have the "10 man" thing and dts can now transport other units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1725860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistorius Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I must admit, it would be very fluffy to have a Techmarine drop in with the Dreadnought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1725912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 how ever if i remeber correctly drednoughts no longer have the "10 man" thing and dts can now transport other units Just to be clear ... it does not matter what size a dreadnought is, because the rules in SM Codex for Drop pods are 12 men, OR 1 Dreadnought. Like I said above, 1 Dreadnought and an IC is not the same as 1 Dreadnought. So this is a NO GO within 5th Ed Codex SM. I do not know about other chapters, but I'm pretty sure other codex have drop pods as 10 man capacity, and list dreadnoughts as 10 men sized. I must admit, it would be very fluffy to have a Techmarine drop in with the Dreadnought. And its fluffy for a space marine army to take out 10x their number without losing a single man. But just like what you've said, this has no bearing on the discussion, and really only serves to confuse the issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1727774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistorius Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I must admit, it would be very fluffy to have a Techmarine drop in with the Dreadnought. And its fluffy for a space marine army to take out 10x their number without losing a single man. But just like what you've said, this has no bearing on the discussion, and really only serves to confuse the issue. Someone's a mite testy... Some people, like myself, are less hung up on abstract game rules and play the game as a way of participating in the evocative background that GW has created over the years. If you are strictly looking at transport capacity, then you are correct that the rules-as-written do not allow such an occurrence . However, the new SM Codex has shown that the game developers view this piece of iinformation to be arbitrary and not as "set in stone" as you seem to think. I hardly believe that my post muddied the waters as much as you say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147912-droppods-and-dreadnoughts/#findComment-1728278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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