Effectiveness of Troop only armies

[minigun762]

Ok so 5th Edition is here and we all know that Troops are awesome now.

The first thing that might come to mind is "Hmm I better fill up all 6 of my army slots with troops ASAP" but has anyone actually done this and played a few games? If so , did it work out as well as you hoped?

 

I haven't had a chance to play a 5th Edition game yet, but I'm thinking that there would be a big difference between a solid foundation of Troop squads and too many, but then again it may simply be a case of "more = better".

[Seth the Dark]

Well a solid base of several Troops is a good idea but, depending on the army, your troops might not be that great (ie Necrons). I have Orks and taking 6 Troops is easy to do but only 2 of the 3 missions use the Troops to gain the objective. I wouldn't think that a Troop heavy army would be boring.

[ComradeRed]

Fortunately for Chaos, we have the best and most diverse selection of troop units in the game. While with some armies such as Tau and Necrons, a troop heavy approach will be rather ineffective. These armies need their elites and Heavy Support to bring out the best of the army. Chaos, however doesn't require that. Our troops are equivalent to other armies' elite units.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

Fielding a 'Horde' Space Marines army warms my soul and makes my opponants wee alittle.

[Cale]

I played six troop choices at the 'Ard Boyz, and it did well for me. At 1500, I only play four or five, since my troop choices tend to come in around 250 points (you can't fit six of them in!) but, basically, the Chaos Space Marine squad is the best thing in the new Chaos Codex--and quite possibly the best troop choice in the game, right now. Playing a lot of them is the way to go. Just make sure to bring Rhinos for them, or they're a little slow.

[chillin]

How do you outfit your csm squads Cale ? just curious

[Cale]

10 mans, Rhino, Champion with Powerfist and IoCG, two meltas or two flamers. It's 255 with the meltas or 245 with the flamers. Two of each is a thousand points, even, and that's what I usually play at 1500.

 

In the 'Ard Boyz, I also ran two similar squads but with Power Weapons and Plasma Rifles (which also came in at 255 each).

 

I usually run one with plasma, one with meltas, and one with flamers at 1000 points.

 

I've had a lot of success, too. Placed first at the 'ard boyz, won seven out of the nine games I've played with them in our current league (which started about the same time that I had a playable army constructed) and I think I've won every pickup game I've used them in so far.

 

I really think that the average Chaos Space Marine squad might well be the best unit in the entire game. (When, of course, everything is weighted by cost. Otherwise the Warlord'd top the chart.)

[Seahawk]

I rarely ever use more than 2 squads and still win every game; thus having more is not necessary.

 

However, CSM are spoilt for choices in the Troops section, and I think it'd be very easy to make an effective list. An old friend dumped a bunch of un-used cult troops on me recently, so I could go to town and have an army of:

 

20 CSM

20 Plague Marines

15 Berzerkers

20 Daemons

20 Daemons

20 Daemons

 

I wish rhinos could hold more, but eh whatcha gonna do. I'm actually considering using a list like that this week against my friends and seeing how it goes.

[chillin]

Maybe I'll have to try doubling up. But I know every time my 2X flamer squad ends up near a tank or my 2X melta squad in front of a hoard I'll wish I had my melta/flamer combo :P

I already double up on plasma guns of course.

No doubt that good ole undivided csm's are one of the best all around units in the game.

Congrats on 'ard boyz

[the jeske]

rest of the list was standard chaos ? 2 DPs / oblits/random points filler?

[minigun762]

10 mans, Rhino, Champion with Powerfist and IoCG, two meltas or two flamers. It's 255 with the meltas or 245 with the flamers. Two of each is a thousand points, even, and that's what I usually play at 1500.

 

In the 'Ard Boyz, I also ran two similar squads but with Power Weapons and Plasma Rifles (which also came in at 255 each).

 

I usually run one with plasma, one with meltas, and one with flamers at 1000 points.

 

I do a similiar thing, but I find myself less and less likely to splurge on the Champion for some reason. Did you find yourself constantly needing or using the power weapons/fists or was it more of a comfort element for "just in case"?

[Cale]

When your primary opener is hopping out of a tank and either rapid-firing or charging, you find yourself in combat a lot. It simply is not the case that a firefight within 12" should continue for more than one round. If I hop out and shoot at 12", I should either get charged (by a squad which is better in combat or worse in shooting than mine) or I should charge on my next turn (against squads that are worse in combat or better in shooting than mine.)

 

Even against armies where I don't really need my powerfist to win in combat (guard and tau) I've found that being able to bring a powerfist to bear against tanks is worthwhile as well. I've killed more than one Leman Russ with powerfist swings.

 

And, of course, it's practically required when facing monstrous creatures or dreadnoughts.

 

So, yes. My powerfists have been really useful.

 

Also, I really don't think two troop choices is sufficient. I mean, if you pull an objective game, all they have to do is kill two units and you can't win. Can. Not. Win. Period.

 

That's no good. If, Seahawk, you've really been winning games with only two troop choices, all I can say is that your opponents must be idiots. Or maybe you're playing, like, 20 man plague marine squads. That might cut it.

 

Failure to kill 20 marines, though, in the course of an entire game, can only be chalked up to incompetence on the part of one's opponent.

[minigun762]

Well you could use Land Raiders and keep your troops inside of them until they're needed last minute.

Not saying thats the best idea, but it could help protect 20 marines, especially if those guys are Plague Marines or Rubrics.

Rush up to the objective, popping smoke along the way. The next few turns use the Land Raiders are gun platforms to try to knockout units coming close to your troops. Round turn 4-5, pop your guys out behind the Land Raider and use it as a Shield.

Of course 2 squads in Land Raiders is enough points to buy 3-4 squads in Rhinos.

 

You make an excellent point about the squads and Power Fists Cale, I'll have to reconsider what I've been doing.

[Primarch Naogedd]

Lesser Daemons count as troops for all but FoC purposes, so the Lesser Daemon horde might be an alternative.

[Seth the Dark]

I do like the Lesser demons as you could pop them forward of a unit and have them run ahead, thus providing a cover save for your Marines.

[DuskRaider]

A similar question was posted in the Nurgle section. I've run a "pure" troop army a few times, with great success. The only reason I say "pure is I also used Chosen and a lot of Terminators. 4,000+ points against 'Nids, and it was a total slaughter. Killed every bug on the board with 40+ PMs left, plus all of the Termies. In short, it's a great idea, as was said before, we have the best troop choices in the game.

[Seahawk]

Some of my opponents are bad, definitely, but an equal amount are good. It's simply a matter of keeping them safe, in one way or another. I only use a pair of 10 man CSM, iocg/melta/flamer/power fist, in rhinos. IG are fun to slaughter with them. Once a single CSM squad charged three IG squads, I lost 2-3 models, he lost all three squads in the resolution. Tasty. Sometimes I'll use daemons, but the rest of the army slams any opponent so hard they pretty much just crumble. Granted, I don't get to play much against Eldar since only I play them around here anymore. I dunno, I just don't come up against something I can't defeat.

 

Also, I'm not an 'ard Boyz player, nor are my opponents. It sets the mood a bit different I guess, allowing for more laid back games. It's not like they don't aim for my Troops when they get the chance; I just don't give them the chance.

 

I'm glad you've had such awesome success with CSM and not PM. That helps me because, as you see, I use similar units, just less of them. Makes me feel a little fuzzier to know that someone else is rockin' with the basics.

[Cale]

I guess I'll take your word for it, but it still just doesn't seem like most opponents are going to fail to wipe two marine squads.

[Seahawk]

Psychology is my friend. :rolleyes:

[the jeske]

0_o you play against children or what ? a normal player should be more or less immune to that or at least know how to control himself in a tournament setting . Psychology works only against kids and sunday gamers . A true tournament player [am constantlly try to write power gamer , but it has a different meaning here] will see an army with easy pts if you plop a 1850 pts army with 2 troops .

[Seahawk]

I can throw off people of a large age range (18-50's), even in harder tournament settings. It's nothing I say, but how I play. I don't quite understand it myself, but it happens. And no I can never play with children. I prefer to play people that are on the same level as me: knowing the rules in and out, play hard but not like a jerk, knows subtle ways to mess with me in return, and can have a good laugh. I simply don't have fun when someone doesn't read their rules, always gets them wrong, and never learns, much less one who goes to ebay all the time and buys things like a land raider terminus and tries to play it in normal games. Or four heavy weapons in a terminator squad. It's really ridiculous. No, I avoid such people, and strive to play against the highest caliber. I'd want to play against hardcore power gamers such as yourself more often =) but there simply isn't that type of person out here. I don't have the money, time, or easy access to attend tournaments all the time, and while I usually avoid them anyway, I like the challenge every once in a while. Otherwise it's like playing Halo on easy all the time; sure you get to kill things and win all the time, but it isn't as fun without the challenge.

 

I suppose after 1250 or so I'll add in a 3rd Troops choice. A 4th if it's 1750+. But they tend to be daemons instead of cult troops, since they're nice and cheap distraction units.

[minigun762]

I think Lesser Daemons are often overlooked when it comes to guarding an objective. Cheap fearless 5 man squads cost you less than an Obliterator and with run are slightly faster to get on target.

Sure they're nothing super powerful, but you could easily afford 3 such squads for the price of 1 Rhino mounted CSM/Cult squad. Working along side normal Troop choices, you could easily put a 2nd little scoring unit down infront or behind your main one, and now your opponent has 2 things to deal with. Hell if things get desparate, you could always screen another unit for the cover save.

[Smurfalypse]

I usually run three base CSM units at 1850 and lower, when the pts go up i start adding another unit per 500pts is kinda my thing. I throw this away sometimes when i run the mass of possessed but other than that i keep a nice full list of troop choices.

[Cale]

I agree that Daemons are worth taking, though I rarely do. (it's an aesthetics thing, for me. I don't like the gribblies.)

 

I also agree that psychology is worthless. Playing badly is playing badly, and if a player plays badly, it's almost always his or her fault--not yours. People who can routinely be affected by psychological manipulation are bad players. As far as I'm concerned, that tendency not just indicative, it's a sufficient condition all on its own.

[captain maximus]

have you guys ever thought of 20 man squads? just curious