Cale Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 They don't fit in Rhinos and they still only get two special weapons. Not a terrible idea, but probably not worth the loss of Rhinos. Still, I could envision a 340 point squad with 20 guys, a pair of plasma guns, and an Icon of Glory. It'd be funny. I'm just not sure it'd be worthwhile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Didn't I read somewhere that you may take a rhino for a squad even if it's too big for the transport capacity? I swear I did...in which case the rhino isn't lost, but its function is only to provide cover instead of actually transport. Ah yes, found it on the FAQ (which takes bloody forever to get to now; 6-7 clicks...). All is well then, the rhino is not lost! It can provide light mobile firepower and isn't a priority target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I'd stay away from a 20 man squad... big enough template and you lose a whole lot of guys. I go 7 - 10 each, I can be in more places at once and if I lose a squad, I still have more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Didn't I read somewhere that you may take a rhino for a squad even if it's too big for the transport capacity? I swear I did...in which case the rhino isn't lost, but its function is only to provide cover instead of actually transport. Ah yes, found it on the FAQ (which takes bloody forever to get to now; 6-7 clicks...). All is well then, the rhino is not lost! It can provide light mobile firepower and isn't a priority target. I didn't say you couldn't take a Rhino--you're right; you can--I just said that they don't fit into it. It's true that the Rhino is useful even if they can't, but it's pretty clearly not as useful, and the squad itself is worse for having neither a 26-ish inch threat range with its rapid fire shots nor a mobile bunker from which it can assault. The Rhino isn't worthless without guys, but guys are much better with a Rhino they can ride. I'd still advise against larger-than-ten man squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 I think 20 man squads work best for Fearless Cult Troops. Even with a LD10 Reroll, I'd hate the idea of 20 guys running off the board because something bad happened (however unlikely). 20 Rubric Marines wouldn't be too shabby, rather tough to kill even with a Battle Cannon so pie plates are less of a worry. Plus the amount of shooting you could put out would be scary for anything MEQ based. Overall though, if I was to do a 20 man squad, I'd do 20 Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters. Thats 40 Bolter shots at 24" if you move (thats 13 dead Orks) or 60! shots if you stand still. Plus you're still fearless and decent in the assault phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Of course, that squad is 500 points. That's quite a lot in a 1500 point game. If I were to choose between two of those and four of my squads, I know which one I'd take--and I'd bet on mine to win the fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Of course, that squad is 500 points. That's quite a lot in a 1500 point game. If I were to choose between two of those and four of my squads, I know which one I'd take--and I'd bet on mine to win the fight. Oh naturally. I was just point out the units that would make the most of being 20 man strong. To me assault units are too restricted since all they can do is charge things, so Beserkers wouldn't be the best in my book. Plague Marines would be nasty as hell and damn near invincible to normal attacks, but 20 guys is going to be one hell of a target for artillery (though that goes for everyone). In defending, in cover they'd probably be the best but lose out when moving forward due to rapid fire weapons. Rubrics have the weapon range (24") plus the Inv save to protect against Ordnance so they look like the clear winner. The only weakness really is how a tiny assault squad could hold them up for a long long time. With just 1 attack and the Sorcerer, it would take some time to chew through assaulter. Thats why I said Noise Marines would have my pick for best unit to spam 20 of. Sonic Blasters mean they're deadly to infantry out to 24". Plus the 2 base attacks and I5 present a problem even for Assault Marine or other I4 close combat units. In Apocalypse though, I'd go with Rubrics. 4+ Inv save to all those big guns is worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 in apo inv save is nothing , because there are D class weapons . Big squads were never useful . It was alway better to have 2x8 or 2x10 then 20 csm/culters . the problem with the 1ksons is that if someone drops a drop pod near them and you dont intercept it , then the unit wont do much for the rest of the game [and a sm player can have 1 on the first turn and more later]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1719812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think 20 man squads work best for Fearless Cult Troops. Even with a LD10 Reroll, I'd hate the idea of 20 guys running off the board because something bad happened (however unlikely). 20 Rubric Marines wouldn't be too shabby, rather tough to kill even with a Battle Cannon so pie plates are less of a worry. Plus the amount of shooting you could put out would be scary for anything MEQ based. Overall though, if I was to do a 20 man squad, I'd do 20 Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters. Thats 40 Bolter shots at 24" if you move (thats 13 dead Orks) or 60! shots if you stand still. Plus you're still fearless and decent in the assault phase. I have a friend who runs 20 rubric's in almost every game, he pretty much swears by the big unit of them now. They are a pain in the butt, though vs orks/nids/eldar they are pretty much overpriced, under-equipped marines, vs MEQ its a pain in the butt lemme tell ya. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1720228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah thats how I'd imagine them to be. Work great against Necrons especially, being as you're still better in Assault than a slow Necron Warrior. Even the Monolith is less of a concern due to the Inv Saves. The big negative with the 20 man Rubrics is getting held up and prevented from shooting by a small assault force. Hell even a tiny Tactical squad could hold them for a turn or two, and thats a big decrease in shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1720279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 the assaults arent such a big problem a bigger unit of 1ksons supported by a counter unit should deal with them . problem is dreads in drop pods [they are way way better now]. After 20 1ksons pile in there may be no free space to charge the dread and can do nothing about the dread while on the other hand a dread can kill one per turn. I have a friend who runs 20 rubric's in almost every game, yes and you use possessed :P I a normal game here it would look like that . First or second turn . hellifre mortars /medusa siege guns/dreads from pods/double lash/avatar with fortune [upps forgot that khan build is legal now . so outflanking LRC with assault termis or bikes with khan ] hit it an the unit does nothing for the rest of the game either because its dead or because it in hth for 4 turns . + all those units cost less then 20 1ksons . [with the exeption of assault termis in a LRC]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1721548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
northoceanbeach Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Next week I'll try something out and see how it goes. Lord, pack, khorne, claws 150 9 raptors, claws 220 20 marines, ac, fist, 2 melta, ICG 370 20 marines, ac fist, 2 flamers , ICG 360 20 marines, 2 plasma, ac, fist, ICG 380 20 marines, 2 meltas, ac, fist, ICG 370 That's 1850 and 90 marines. I wish I could beat 100 but that's all the regular troops I own without having to break off weapons. I don't know if it will do well. Probably not. No mobility, and hard to move around the board with decent terrain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1727477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'd be interested to hear how it goes. Rigth up a proper little battle report if you can, especially with pictures! Seeing that many Marines on a board is always fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/147952-effectiveness-of-troop-only-armies/page/2/#findComment-1728101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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