Noise Marines or Plague Marines

[seandb]

I'm new here and I really hope this is the right place to post something like this..I've been having a dilemma deciding whether I should convert my regular CSM's into either Noise Marines or Plague Marines. I'm new to the game and just picked up a used army a month or so ago, I've been slowly building on it though. I'm planning on running a Khrone army at 1500 points, but I'm also thinking of an alternative army that's either Nurgle or Slaanesh at 1500 as well. What are some of the advantages/disadvantages of both troops? could someone offer me a fairly comprehensive comparision between the two? What cirumstances/strategies would be benificial for using either? (Plague/Noise) I have the codex but I'm not too sure how they would actually play out and I don't want to do some conversions until I get a better idea. I've noticed a lot of people running Plague Marines and not many running Noise Marines, I'm not sure why though.

 

Thanks in advance, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Brother Nihm]

Look to the stickies, namely the tactica in the Chaos Lord's Handbook.

[davidren2401]

Ok so here's the breakdown. Noise Marines and Plauge Marines are the middle-of-the road cult troops. They both have something to bring to the table in both combat and shooting.

On the combat side Noise Marines are I5 helping you to dish out the hurt on your opponent before he can even move. With the new assault grenade rules these guys are choice for holding a building. Don't waste the champion's initiative by giving him a power fist, a power weapon will do fine and (if you're sending them out to meet the foe) a doom siren. Shooting wise these guys can lay down a storm of fire like nothing else. Sonic Blasters can lay down 3 shots at 24" range as long as you stay still, and their blast masters are AP3 small blast, tasty. Be prepared to pay through the nose for all this though. Noise Marines may be the cheapest cult troops but give each one a sonic blaster and hey presto they're the most expensive. And you could buy 2 more noise marines for the price of a blastmaster.

Plauge Marines have a different shiek in combat. At toughness 5 and with feel no pain they dont die easy to anything but powerfists and rending claws. Careful leaving them in the open though cause AP1 and 2 weapons negate your feel no pain save. Because they're I3 anyway there's much less of an implicit penalty to giving your champion a powerfist. Shooting wise these guys have the advantage of being able to take a second special weapon at less than ten men, so deck them out with plasmaguns! On that note thanks to their feel no pain save plauge marines are half as lightly to take a wound from plasma as other marines, and those odds were long enough to begin with thanks to them only overheating on 1's now.

It's hard for me to make a recomendation without knowing what you want your troops to do so I'll answer for both roles troops usualy fill.

Hold The Fort!: Noise Marines no question. As I've said grenade rules work to their advantage and they will wither any light-medium infantry trying to cross no man's land. Optimal configuration: Ten noise marines, champion with power sword, 4 sonic blasters and a blastmaster. 290 pts. Be sure to back them up with at least one Obliterator cult for heavy infantry/tank cracking.

Go Get 'Em!: I'd say Plauge Marines. Chuck them in a rhino and send them on their way or keep them handy to couter attack deep striking termies. They work best against low strength enemies or units that they've already shot to hell. Their's no point in charging with them. Just sit back, shoot, and then let the blight grenades do their work. Optimal configuration: 6 Plauge Marines, champion with powerfist and combi-plasma, 2 plasmaguns, rhino with extra armour. 268 pts.

 

My 2 cents

[the jeske]

best NM armies are water warrior 8 man with sonics every secon squad armed with a hvy . double lash and oblits as the control element . while its true that NM do ok in hth , remember that in most cases they cost more pts then the units they end up in hth with [and those that cost more then NM will offten massacer them . like assault termis etc ] . Also remember if you pay for sonics and end up in hth each turn your not shoting with them you waste the pts you paid for them . Lots of moving around pushing back units from objectives with lash or/and hiting them with oblits . thats how NM should be played .

 

PM builds are generic and are played like the BL list only without zerkers . So its easy to play with it .

[Zealot Of Chaos]

I play a NM Oblit army (but no lash, just a blissgiver) and I find the NM tick all the boxes for me the move 6" and still let off thunderous amounts of fire, the doom siren the space marines in that building, no cover or armour saves :devil: the stand and deliver (insane amounts of firepower) and the fearlessness, since I made my NM army they have won 7 drawn 2 and lost 0, once apoc game one of my squads was reduced just down to sarge by a squad of termies and a squad of vets, my opponent was almost crying in my next turn as my oblits p-cannoned his terms (all 3 were hits on scatter) to evaporate the 10 man squad completely and my lone sarge running up to the vets to unleash the doom siren killing the entire 5 man squad...

 

but then I find NM suit my style of play almost perfectly, the only thing I can suggest is make a few lists (NM army, PM army, NM+PM army and neither) run a few dummy games with a friend using counts as to represent your lists and see which fits the bill for you, in effect take a test drive before you commit to it

[seandb]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback.

 

Davidren you said that:

"Hold The Fort!: Noise Marines no question. As I've said grenade rules work to their advantage and they will wither any light-medium infantry trying to cross no man's land. Optimal configuration: Ten noise marines, champion with power sword, 4 sonic blasters and a blastmaster. 290 pts. Be sure to back them up with at least one Obliterator cult for heavy infantry/tank cracking.

Go Get 'Em!: I'd say Plauge Marines. Chuck them in a rhino and send them on their way or keep them handy to couter attack deep striking termies. They work best against low strength enemies or units that they've already shot to hell. Their's no point in charging with them. Just sit back, shoot, and then let the blight grenades do their work. Optimal configuration: 6 Plauge Marines, champion with powerfist and combi-plasma, 2 plasmaguns, rhino with extra armour. 268 pts."

 

I was under the impression that Plague Marines would be better for objectives and Noise Marines for assaulting..or is it the other way around? or merely situational..let me post my two variations I'm thinking of putting together, these lists are very rough but tell me what you think I haven't detailed their gear but I'm just trying to figure out what troop choices at least for the time being.

 

ARMY 1: 1500 pts (Khorne Army for Assulting)

 

HQ

Daemon Prince

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor or Khârn the Betrayer?

 

Troops

10 Berzerkers + Rhino

10 Berzerkers + Rhino

10 Berzerkers + Rhino

10 Noise Marines + Rhino

 

5 Terminators

 

1 Defiler

 

 

ARMY 2: 1500 pts (Objective based army)

 

HQ

1 Lucious The Eternal

1 Daemon Prince

 

Troops

10 Plague Marines

10 Plague Marines

10 Plague Marines

 

2 Obliterators

 

1 Defiler

1 Vindicator

 

Should this one have rhino's? or terminators?

 

Thanks again!

[Zealot Of Chaos]

for objectives rhinos to get you to the points

 

and 2nd the assaulting list, zerkers and NM doesn't bother everyone but seriously unfluffy, those 2 factions hate the other more than any other chaos vs chaos, for the assaulting I would take Khârn because he is so funny to play with, but in the objectives one I would drop Lucius, doesn't seem to make his points worth compared to a lord with blissgiver for the same points

 

davidren said NM are objectives holders because with sonic weapons each sonic blaster gets 3 shots when you stand still and blastmasters an ap3 pinning blast template, therefore sit them on the point and don't move, if anything comes to close you can assault and generally have higher initiative to be able to clobber people, but I also find on the same point that they make good assaulting troops each being able to fire 2 str 4 shots ( or 2 str 6 shots for blastmaster) with sarge having an ap3 flamer template which is why I like them, they are flexible enough to cover all situations (except getting eaten by dreadnaughts, melta bombs never seem to do it against them for me)

[seandb]

Ah k, thanks for clearing that up Zealot. Well, I think I'll take your advice on the Rhino's for objectives and not use to the NM's in the zerker army, I do want to stay relatively close to the fluff.

 

I'm just going to use my "proxy" my Space Marines and test out NM's and PM's for a little while and see what I seem to like as they both seem capable of holding objectives well. I'm leaning towards using a bit of both possibly but I really like the 3 shots that the NM get when they are stationary.

 

Thanks again for clearing this up and all the suggestions..I have a better idea now.

 

One last question, are Lucius or Fabius used very often? what purpose would they serve or is it usually prefered to take a lord and prince usually over the other HQ's for 1500 (stat wise)? aside from Khârn in a Khrone army. A friend of mine recommended I use them, I have Lucius but not Fabius.

[the jeske]

dont use the specials chaos have they are really weak . slow and they cost a lot of pts . Slanny HQ should be DP lash or Lord steed[only character that can be played without wings/jumppack] and blissgiver . Both if its possible work better when spamed .

 

The khorn ones ..well .. here you dont have many options . No sorc and the khorn dp is the weakest of all [aint even the best in hth] . Lord with demon weapons aint a good options too . Sure they can have a lot of attacks[that still have to hit and wound ] and have an almost 1/3 chance of stuning themselfs in hth . LC and wings/jumppack is the only option [still a crapy one ] . I would stay away from khorn HQ and pure khorn armies . They are good for people that dont really care about the game aspect of W40k.

 

as the lis go

 

HQ

1 Lucious The Eternal

drop

1 Daemon Prince

well your not telling which one you use , but considering its a single one and ita BL list . Go for the MoT one with warp time [dont buy the second power ]

 

Troops

10 Plague Marines

10 Plague Marines

10 Plague Marines

too big 7 or 8 max with 2 specials and a asp with a PF.

2 Obliterators

 

1 Defiler

1 Vindicator

never mix hvy support . always spam . either 4 oblits and dakka pred or 2 defilers and dakka pred . Oblits are the better and more effective option .

HQ

Daemon Prince

again MoT warp time

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor or Khârn the Betrayer?

never terminator armor . always wings/jump pack [unless its slanny lord then steed is ok].

 

 

Troops

10 Berzerkers + Rhino

10 Berzerkers + Rhino

10 Berzerkers + Rhino

bit big those squads . 8 man or 9 max. asp champion with a fist [specially as this version lacks anti tank]

10 Noise Marines + Rhino

makes no sense . NM to be effective need 3 units minium . also squad is to big 8/9 man max . some will say that a fist wastes the I5 and extra attack . Well If your list is using NM your unit should always be bigger then the ones they charge or that charge them [remember NM are used in shoty armies not hth based] thx to the sonic weapons . Normal attacks will kill some and the fist makes sure you dont have to fear MC/IC or dreadnoughts . + it gives your hvy support units options to find other targets . they no longer "have to" kill this or that model . Having more options is always good .

5 Terminators

too big 3 man mini squad or if you really want to use terminators , then only in bigger games 2 units of 6

1 Defiler

its hard enough to use 2 defilers and a dakka pred . A single one is going to die or lose its weapons very fast .

[davidren2401]

Zealot explained my point of view pretty well. I would just like to add one further point about grenades by way of an example. Say a squad of assault marines storms a building held by plauge marines. Their frag grenades negate the effects of terrain making the assault marines go first (I4) ahnd Plauge Marines go last (I3). Now say the same squad storms a building held by Noise Marines. The frag grenades cause the Noise Marines to strike first (I5) and the assault marines to strike last (I4). This is the main reason I would pick Noise Marines over Plauge Marines as my objective holders.

[the jeske]

ok and if the marine player is doing assaults then the squad doing it is possible joined by an IC/special character and most kill will come from power weapons/fist . PMs are better objective holders because the attacking units gets less attacks against you , so less chance to hit and wound . What combined with the fact that generally they hit on +4and wound on +5 [specially those people who think power weapons are a good choice in the 5th] and then you make saves and FnP against normal attacks . NM dont get that sure they attack first , but this is still meq on meq , so +4 /+4 and your opponent is going to have more attacks even if 1 or 2 die before they strike they still have more chance to kill your NM . And if they have and IC/HQ the unit is will make have to make a lot of saves .