Byrne Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Hello all, Please help me with this little problem. In C:sm a terminator have a stormbolter and a powerfist. it also let the terminator take a heavy weapon, in this case a CML. The CML dosen´t replace or take away any weapons so he will keep stormbolter, powerfist and a CML. But how is this done with a WG in TDA? We don´t have any weapons, we have to buy them, but the faq say we only get one single handed weapon to go with a heavy weapon, our codex also say that the heavy weapon counts as a twohanded weapon. So all I get is: A WG in TDA with a lightning claw and a CML. Can we buy another single handed weapon or will we have a hand without a weapon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 That´s the problem. When our ´dex was written the rules for the CML had been different. But meanwhile they had changed. The Targeter arm is gone. I think the best solution is to ignore the rules for weapon choise in C:SW and buy him the CML and two weapons (for example SB/PF). I see no problem in friendly games with this cause our WG are expensive enough. For tournaments you should talk to the jugdes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1719924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Q. Can Wolf Guard Terminators have a single-handed weapon in addition to a heavy weapon? A. Yes – this rule supercedes the note in the Wolf Guard list entry. If they have a cyclone missile launcher they may have a storm bolter instead of a single- handed weapon. In addition, they may select Runic Charms, Wolf Pelts and Wolf Tooth Necklaces as if they had a ‘T’ next to their cost in the Space Wolf Armoury. SW FAQ The FAQ makes a quick reference to the CML, but fails to allow us the usage as the same per C:SM. Like Dark B. said I'd check at the local store, especially if you kit him out the same way as the nilla marines are for CML, I don't see a problem with it. I don't mess with CML, even being Heavy 2, I still don't touch them. Too much fuss, not enough dakka. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 No offense intended Bryne.... At least I'm not the only one who forgets about the FAQ =P This is why I read this forum more than others though, the great people to help us out even when I ask stupid questions that are easily answered =P LOL Thanks guys for helping us pups out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Some folks claim we can arm Cyclone wearing terminators with 2CCWs or whatever (SB/PF, 2LC, TH/SS, etc). The only one I can see being possible is the SB/PF, as thats what 'traditional' marines use. I can see the logic that if they can pick SB/PF, they can pick any other 2 1-handed weapons.. but I have not seen where it spells that out (or even implies that). Its putting me in a bit of a pinch. I would like to give my cyclones 2LC, but cant find anything saying thats legal. Of course, I will second Wolf.. even with Heavy 2, still not enough Dakka. MAYBE if you took a WGBL with ML/PC and his terminator bodyguards all with cyclones as a 'fill in Long Fang' pack. In fact, I might look into that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Of course, I will second Wolf.. even with Heavy 2, still not enough Dakka. MAYBE if you took a WGBL with ML/PC and his terminator bodyguards all with cyclones as a 'fill in Long Fang' pack. In fact, I might look into that. Oh god, I never thought of that... all those ML shots into a tank... good god... It's also 30 points extra on top of a 40+ point model... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 The way I see it, Long Fangs are a horrible point sink. Cant move and shoot, no ablative wounds (like regular devestator squads). The only real bonus you have is the split fire. Now, a WGBL and his bodyguards, all with cyclones means you have 2 ablative wounds (the two extra wolf guards you equip with BP/CCW and RCs to soak up wounds), and a pack that should cost pretty close to a LF pack.. not to mention filling in an HQ slot. I will run the numbers later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 The way I see it, Long Fangs are a horrible point sink. Cant move and shoot, no ablative wounds (like regular devestator squads). The only real bonus you have is the split fire. Now, a WGBL and his bodyguards, all with cyclones means you have 2 ablative wounds (the two extra wolf guards you equip with BP/CCW and RCs to soak up wounds), and a pack that should cost pretty close to a LF pack.. not to mention filling in an HQ slot. I will run the numbers later. Add in a few fenrisian wolves as well for more ablative'ness... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Add in a few fenrisian wolves as well for more ablative'ness... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/neongensis/banner/24.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1720572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Give the ablative wounds storm shields for more soaking is what Id do. This is a primarily ranged unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1721304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 After an interesting discussion with Wolf89, here is what I've come up with in my 2000pts DP list: 1 WGBL Frost Blade (x1); CML, Storm Sield Terminator Armour; Runic Charm; Wolf Pelt 4 Wolf Guard Retinue The 3 first have Terminator Armour; Runic Charm and a Wolf Pelt 1 CML; Power Fist; Storm Shield; 1 CML; Power Fist; Storm Shield; 1 Bolter-Plasma Gun; Storm Shield 1 Bolter; Runic Charm 2 Fenrisian Wolves They'll be deployed from the start in a good cover, and 4 SS should be enough to shrug off even a Vindicator blast. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1721540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrne Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 nice thinking, only one problem. The stormshield, it used to be concidered a non weapon, but now we are here with a new faq and a new SM codex. I think it would count as a extra onehanded weapon, but not giving any bonus to attack. I do wish we can take SS with a CML :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1721575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Well in my french edition the SS is listed as a one-handed weapon, so it should be doable, although without the attack bonus as you said. Moreover the guys-with-dresses can take a pair of LC and a CML, and everybody knows that we're better than them :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1721660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Well in my french edition the SS is listed as a one-handed weapon, so it should be doable, although without the attack bonus as you said. Moreover the guys-with-dresses can take a pair of LC and a CML, and everybody knows that we're better than them ;) Yea I've seen this often in other lists where the non-english editions have different wording on things. I really don't see a problem with using a SS in conjunction with a CML and power fist, it's like saying that storm bolter (same point costs mind you) is now a 3+ inv. shield! ;) @ Grey mage When I first read your post I immediately thought you were being sarcastic because I thought when you said "ablative wounds" you meant the fenrisian wolves... Running through my mind went the thought of wolves with a giant storm shield on their back and it made me smile. :P I keep saying we should be able to give the wolves melta bombs... but no one seems to remember WWII :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1721847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Lol, yeah 30 pts instead of 15 pts for a 3+ invuln save on your free wounds. People would looooooooooove us. I wouldnt even tie a SS on a wolf back, I would try to dig up a cyber mastiff and make it a little furry, a little cybernetic. I think that would be a decent combination of the two models. But I digress... I would be a little leery of the points cost associated with giving a SS to all my CML guys. I dont have my dex on me atm, but you are talking what? 25 pts for the dude, 5 for the armor, 20 for a SS, 20 for a PF, 30 for a CML, 5 for a RC? I mean that's 105 pts for one wolf. OUCH! What I've realized with the new wound allocation is that, unless you get pegged by something like a Vindi blast or something along those lines, You dont need a whole unit of SS's. Just a couple models. If a unit is shooting at you, typically they are going to score more than 5 wounds if the dice rolls are good, and if there's a couple nasty plasma wounds in there, you really dont need more than 1 or 2 SS's to soak them up. Just use your SS models to take any fire that you normally wouldnt get your 2+ save for, take normal saves on the rest. Just never, NEVER leave home without your RC's. In my last game, I had a unit of 6 termies drop pod into the middle of a tau formation and proceed to soak up just about 1500 pts worth of shooting for 4 turns, and I only lost 3. Just about all had popped their RC's by turn two, so they are definately worth the 5 pts! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1721992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Your point values are wrong, we're talking about a 70-80 point model here, which isn't THAT bad... :) The fenrisian wolves ablativeness for 4 puppies is only 48 points, and they'll be allocated only against the dangerous AP weaponry. I'll have to play test this for sure and come up with a working point list that's worth taking. On a side note, PA Wolf guard with a storm shield and bolter seems tempting... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yeah, I knew my points might be off. Like i said, dont have my dex on me. I was thinking the exact same thing about the PA WG though, just slap on a SS and presto, same purpose in your TDA unit, but cheaper. However, I would then have to check the rules as far as TDA heavies, cuz I dont know if it's 1:3 that are TDA armored or just in the pack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I was going to ask if it possible to get "many" Cyclone launchers for my terminators and arm them for assault so i can soften any targets with them before the charge, but i think it isn't neccessary anymore. BTW. If assaulting from LRC, is it possible to shoot before charging? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Before the new SM codex, no, you couldnt shoot your heavy weapons as vanilla termie armor (which is what we go off of) was weak and didnt have the relentless rule. Now, it does. So by all means, pile out, unleash hell, and if anything is still standing and foolish enough not to run away, bash them in the face and show them just how foolish it is to stand in front of a SW termie charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yeah, I knew my points might be off. Like i said, dont have my dex on me. I was thinking the exact same thing about the PA WG though, just slap on a SS and presto, same purpose in your TDA unit, but cheaper. However, I would then have to check the rules as far as TDA heavies, cuz I dont know if it's 1:3 that are TDA armored or just in the pack. It's 1:3 in the squad, doesn't have to be all TDA, so you could effectively have 3 TDA WGBG with CML, then 4 PA WGBG and be fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yeah, I knew my points might be off. Like i said, dont have my dex on me. I was thinking the exact same thing about the PA WG though, just slap on a SS and presto, same purpose in your TDA unit, but cheaper. However, I would then have to check the rules as far as TDA heavies, cuz I dont know if it's 1:3 that are TDA armored or just in the pack. It's 1:3 in the squad, doesn't have to be all TDA, so you could effectively have 3 TDA WGBG with CML, then 4 PA WGBG and be fine. Gotcha. Boy, that's just scary. Cheapo SS/combi bolter PA marines and a trio of termie heavy weapons...eek! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 AFAIK TDA has always been able to shoot heavy and assault. Thats how I have played with them since I started.. for whatever its worth. And your right.. a SS/Combi-Bolter on PA WG is going to rock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Gotcha. Boy, that's just scary. Cheapo SS/combi bolter PA marines and a trio of termie heavy weapons...eek! That's what I'll be fielding in a 2000pts tournament next month :lol: 1 WGBL Frost Blade (x1); CML, Storm Sield Terminator Armour; Runic Charm; Wolf Pelt 4 Wolf Guard Retinue The 3 first have Terminator Armour; Runic Charm and a Wolf Pelt 1 CML; Power Fist; Storm Shield; 1 CML; Power Fist; Storm Shield; 1 Bolter-Plasma Gun; Storm Shield 1 Combi-Bolter; Runic Charm 3 Fenrisian Wolves I'll let my fellow wolves know how they fare, but knowing that I'll surely be facing lots of Eldar and Nidzilla they should prove very useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 you should add a storm shield to that PA bolter WGBG... remember he has true grit for a reason! :lol: Just another 3+ invlunerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Well I want to leav a guy fairly barebones to give the impression that it's not the cheesiest heavy weapon squad ever ;) Besides I'm really short on points. I could replace his RC with a SS though, or field the plasma guy without termi armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148219-how-to-arm-a-wg-with-cyclone-missile-launcer/#findComment-1722204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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