Death Guard Tactics (or lack there of)

[corncob]

I'm working on a death guard list for a pre-heresy campaign and I've got a couple questions about how to represent them on the top. From what I gather death guard tactics consist of large masses of infantry advancing in order to overwhelm the enemy sort of a cross between orks and guard.

 

hears how I picture it

 

- infintry assult to be spearheaded by standard terminators

- majority of the 2000 pt list to consist of tactical squads

- Sargents with power fists to stop armor

- plasma guns as special weapons

- no heavy weapons as they lack mobility

- main choice of heavy support dreadnoughts

 

any criticism would be welcome if I'm picturing this wrong feel free to call me out

[corncob]

Mortarion of course we just have to work out the kinks with our primarch rules

[Playa]

Hey,

 

death guard tactics consist of large masses of infantry advancing

 

Actually, the classic DG "Spear" was a few mounted squads to amuse the enemy while our sloggers walked up.

 

infintry assult to be spearheaded by standard terminators

 

... in a Land Raider.

The LR Spearhead provides some AA compensation and AV14 Shock potential.

 

majority of the 2000 pt list to consist of tactical squads

 

4x7 PM, with at least two of these in Rhinos.

The Rhinos mean you won't be denied Objectives outside your DZ.

 

- Sargents with power fists to stop armor

- plasma guns as special weapons

- no heavy weapons as they lack mobility

 

Okay.

 

main choice of heavy support dreadnoughts

 

Not necessarily. Havoks would better fit the Infantry theme, imo.

 

 

Playa

[Pacific81]

May I ask what period you are planning on representing Corncob? This will drastically alter how the army should be.. if you are doing a great-crusade era army, then something like this might be a good idea:

 

From the BOLS website

 

If you are using a pre-heresy army on the other hand, or army representing troops just prior to the heresy, then perhaps a Chaos List rather than a standard SM one is the way to go. The one problem with doing this is that unlike the other legions who gradually changed in physical appearance, the DG literally flew into the warp as marines, and then due to what happened to them in there with papa nurgle, emerged as the plague marines that we all know them as in 41k. So obviously this leaves you with difficulties if you want to include daemons in your army, as no white armoured and uncorrupted DG fought alongside daemons on Terra.

 

But I think you are definately on the right track with putting infantry as top priority. Remember also though that the pre-heresy legions were much much larger than todays chapters, functioning more as self contained armies, and so featured every type of troop and more in their ranks. So, if you wanted to, even assault troops and recon units are fair game.

 

Personally I think you are on the right track coming up with a theme first, the modelling, converting and painting of a pre-heresy army always comes before minutae in an army list I find (which you can always worry about when you have sourced parts or found out whats easy/hard to build)

 

Hope this helps!

[Sons of Horus]

uhm they did have heavy weapons as according to the Flight of the Eisenstein. one marine on isstvan extremis had a missile launcher. and he was the one that told garro to move before they blew up the wall.

[corncob]

^ yes but I would asume the magority of the tac squads would be built for mobility and since rocket launchers are now free this dosent pose much of a problem points wise if a swap is needed.

 

As for the campaign its not a reenactment so who is going to fall depends on how it plays out. I believe it starts were the books do and goes until the battle of Tera

[sgtNACHO]

i know diddily about the death guard especially pre heresy

 

Which makes you an EXCELLENT person to comment in a thread titled "deathguard tactics", doesn't it?

 

Apparently, to ask for advice, you need to stipulate that you're looking for input from people who are informed, aren't drunk, functionally retarded, or in fourth grade.

 

Exactly I knew someone would see my point! Lol But hey alot of people just would like a comment or two at least and im just giving him a "Hey looks good" kind of thing. Obviously if i knew more about his soon to be traitorous legion i would help all i can but since i dont im just giving him a thumbs up okay!

[Pacific81]

i know diddily about the death guard especially pre heresy

 

Which makes you an EXCELLENT person to comment in a thread titled "deathguard tactics", doesn't it?

 

Apparently, to ask for advice, you need to stipulate that you're looking for input from people who are informed, aren't drunk, functionally retarded, or in fourth grade.

 

Although all of the above are preferable to someone whos obviously had a bad day :pinch:

[Sickboy]

Hey there, Its my first post here, so be nice.

 

I play a pre-Heresy Death Guard army, and have done so very successfully. I am basing them on the 4th Company under Ullis Temeter. I play the as a spearhead company, aka the most mobile company in the legion.

 

The army is based on three different formations. The first is a Death Guard infantry company. This is a core of 3 20 man tactical squads (we use the 30k rules from BOLS) and a pair of ten man Devastator Squads, one with rocket launchers (as these are mentioned as Death Guard weapons) and one with lascannons (they only get played in Apocalypse games, they're not a DG weapon, but I was having huge trouble with superheavies......).

 

The next part of the army is the 40 terminators and a trio of Dreadnoughts which I use as a Death Knell Orbital Strike Force which is an absolutely broken Apoc formation.

 

The last is the speartip itself. This is a formation of 3 Rhinos, 2 Landraiders, a Predator and a Legion Fellblade. This is where Captain Ullis Temeter and his pimped out Honour Guard live along with my Veteran Squads, these are the cutting edge of the army. They flank march on turn 2 and absolutly butcher an enemy flank. They are followed on turn three by the Orbital Strike Force.

 

With regards to squad kit-outs under the old rules I ran cleanse and purify, being the Death Guard way. Now under the 5th Ed codex I generally run plasma and either Missile Launchers or Autocannons (again, a 30k unit kit-out) because they are nice non-fancy heavy weapon (none of your plasma cannon non-sense). The army has been one of the most fun I've played in 40k. In any game of 1000+ points I run 3 Rhinos with squads inside (usually 2 Tacs and a Sternguard with 2 melta guns). It gives a very dynamic if fragile Space Marine army which plays like the speartip its named for.

 

This was part of a larger 30k campaign we were running. There are few things more fun than playing large Apoc games your friend and their 30k army against foul xenos, I would encourage all of you to give it a try!

[Mal]

well one assumption people are makeing is which rule book you are going to use, I have seen cases stated from both the C:SM and C:CSM (free missile launcher = C:SM and havoks = C:CSM) I have a heresy DG army (definately not post, but not quite pre) and I use the C:CSM rules, but there is no reason you cannot use the C:SM rules, however if you do use the C:SM rules to get the benefits from gramps nurgle then make sure your units are 7 strong, but if using the C:SM rules then use 10 strong as they would not yet be following gramps.

[Pacific81]

This was part of a larger 30k campaign we were running. There are few things more fun than playing large Apoc games your friend and their 30k army against foul xenos, I would encourage all of you to give it a try!

 

Well first of all, hi Sickboy and welcome to the forum :)

 

That campaign sounds awesome! Any chance of some pics?

 

I would also be very interested to hear what campaign system you used!

[Blindhammer]

I would include tacticals with rhinos and lots of terminators. The DG employed higher than usual quantities of TDA. The DG approach was also that basic infantry should be able to fulfill all rolls...so no assault or dev squads.

My preference is for meltas and no heavy weapons in my pre/heresy era DG but having heavy weapons in tac squads is certainly fluffy. The DG weren't stupid enough not to have any heavy weapons, just that they didn't have specialized squads.

 

I'm not sure if there were any assault terminator squads pre-heresy, but the flexibility of the standard twin-linked bolter and power weapon/fist would seem to be perfectly adequate for the DG.

If you use C:CSM you can have up to 20 marines in a squad which makes for a very durable footslogging DG unit.

 

There isn't any source that I can think of that would indicate squad sizes of 7 prior to their fall to Nurgle.

[Pacific81]

The DG approach was also that basic infantry should be able to fulfill all rolls...so no assault or dev squads.

 

I am not sure from where you have got this information Blindhammer? there are examples in Collcted Visions of both Assault Squads (Osgard Assault squad), Heavy support squads (pictured marines armed with multi-meltas and 1 also with heavy plasma), and also heavy support squads of plasma guns

[kil78]

the back bone of the DG was the standard (foot slogging)tactical marine.

 

of course they had specalists, like assult and heavy weapons squads, but in smaller numbers then most of the other leigions.

 

to break it into a ratio for every 16 tactical squads you had 2 devstator squads and 1 assualt squad( remember jump packs were rather

light on the ground at this point and raptors were specilized formations)

[Favoured of the Emperor]

Most people know that the core of a Death Guard army was it's infantry, pre and post heresy. But as already stated there would be mobile units to deal with the enemy to serve as a distraction. They would also have had speartip/heads, as stated in fluff from many sources, they used drop pods alot and is the most tried and tested method of warfare in the Adeptus Astartes legions. I am also guessing that they had Assault Terminators as being a terminator is the epiphany of a death guard, being all but impervious to enemy fire, but with stormshields, thats a whole new level of imperviousness. So, it really depends on which codex you are using. In the C:CSM you only really can do the slogging infantry side of the death guard, with squads albeit large squads of Chaos Marines with icon of nurgle to represent their hardyness (but do not use the actual icon, use a different way to identify it) and some squads in rhinos. A Squad of Nurgle Terminators (again not with an actual icion, just to represent the hardyness) in a landraider, joined by a character in Termiantor armour (not a sorceror, but give character mark of nurgle) and flanked by the two rhinos to serve as the irrestible object at the center.

 

Using C:SM you can focus on the spearhead side of the deathguard, using squads of 10 Marines in a Drop-pod, using Plasmaguns or Flamers and Missile launchers/heavy bolters in some squads, but these could be combat-squadded so all squads could have this kit. Only commanders should be used as the characters, and any other units that can be deepstriked/drop-podded (Dreadnoughts, Assault Marines, Land Speeders).

 

There. I hope this helps,

 

FOE

[kil78]

one thing

 

there is a difference between the table top rules for army composition, and the fluff about the tactics and composition of the "historical" death guard leigion.

 

the new sm codex, leaving out the land raider varients, and anything noted as being post heresey, should be fine. Padro, and leysander would be fine special characters, to represent the DG's stuborn nature. I would however say no psykers or chaplins as they are post heresey.

 

that said, go sick, if you want a fast attack based pre-heresy DG force, more power to you. It would not be the most "typical" DG force, but they more then likely, could have feilded it.

[Pacific81]

I agree. The legions represented all different aspects of warfare, which 42k era chapters often have to concede to Imperial Guard due to their smaller size (support, garrison and even recon duties for example). A small pre-heresy Death Guard recon unit (travelling in Rhinos) for a 600pt skirmish game would be great for instance :)