jadex1 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Okay so I was reading my Space Wolves codex, and also just finished all of the recent space wolf books and i was wondering.... What is the Canis Helixs? Is this the genetic material that makes a individual space marine chapter? I.E., does each chapter have some sort of Goblet they have to to drink from that begins there transformation into a space marine, and then the Gene Seed controls all of that? I know that the Blood Angels drink from the Blood of thier primarch. Also did Leman Russ have Wolfy features, or when you looked at him did he just look like a Barbain? Just courious, how that effects the Space Wolves and such. thanks, JadeX Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Ermmm... damn good question actually. Not sure, to be entirely honest. The phrase "Canis Helix" comes from the latin Canis and the Canis genus including Dogs and Wolves combined with Helix, a reference to the double helix that makes up DNA. As for what is actually is, i've always understood it to be an element of the Space Wolves geneseed that works with the rest. Can go horribly wrong and then you get a Wulfen. Also has a tendency to kill people. Only we would have something of such unbridled lethality in our genetic make up... also explains the hair! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1720891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scy Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Always thought of the canis helix as being the thing that seperates us wolves from the other chapters, it gives us Wolves our wolfyness so to speak. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1720895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate King Atomsk Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I've asked this myself, and I'm pretty sure in the first dose of Gene seed the Wolves get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1720898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I thought it to be an implant... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1720918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think its the prep for the transformation. The Canis Helix gets your body ready for the other implants. If you go nuts and become a wulfen, guess the body isnt the right type. :lol: Not sure what other, lesser chapters use. That, or it could just be the unique genetic helix which is from russ which was used to create the gene seed for all the space wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadex1 Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Ya i was just trying to find out the signafance of it. Because i think every chapter has some sort of liquid that they drink from by some sort of chalice. This is what i think, The Primarchs were made after the Emperors own imagine, then The Space Marines were made after the image of the primarchs. Remember if you will just after the Primarchs are taken away from the Emperor, he takes the remaining genetic material and creates legions of space marines for each primarch using each of there unquie DNA. So i think that each chapter drinks from some sort of Chalice just after they are accpeted into the chapter and then after they drink from it they begin the transformation into a spacemarine, with out the added implants. Then once a certain stage has been reached they implant them with the Geneseed which contiunes there growth, and transformation. So i think that The Canis Heliex's is some sort of Genetic information that is from Leman Russ, and that once you drink of it you begin the transformation. So i would say that all chapters have some sort of unique liquid that they drink by from some sacred chalice from each chapter. that liquid would be what begins to transform them into space marnies. so thats what i think, im looking to see if anyone can back me up or, disprove me. jadex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think Lars' last comment is the best so far....a brew maybe that starts genetic changes taken from Leman Russ. It would make sense, it starts the changes that make Wolves eyes, ears, and nose even sharper than the rest of the Adeptus Astartes and what also may cause the larger tooth growth as well, but the side effect is that it could cause a aspirant to go mad and THAT coupled with the newly implanted organs and geneseed cause the actual physical change into a wulfen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothbrok Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 im pretty sure that the whole chalice consept is uniquwe to the wolves and blood angels.and from what ive been able to get out of the books the canis helix is not the same as our geneseed and russ did have wolfy looks like his sons.keep in mind though this is just my opinions on the matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 i always thought of it as transformation process stage one for becoming a space wolf (after going to boot camp of course). it, to me, seemed to be the change of the body part, making one taller, stronger, tougher, and of course it introduces the "wolf within". the beast that is in all space wolfs and must be controlled of it will destroy you like the wounded prey it sees you as (aka becomes the dominate part of you). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I always thought the Chalice part of the initiation process was just ceremonial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I always thought that the Canis Helixs was parts of a dogs DNA spliced to human DNA, thats how the SW's develop their Acute Senses. The Wolf Priests are "learned in the ways of bio-mechanics and chirurgy," Chirurgy is archaic surgery, as in no longer practiced or banned, like splicing human DNA with that of a different species! Page 16 of the SW codex; "His brain seemed to beat against the inside of his skull and he knew that the Canis gene was corroding his mind even as it barped his body to complete the process which would make ham a full Space marine Warrior, that or kill him." and "But he was theone who had taken theCup of the Wulfen from Father Ulrid's hands. He was the one who had accepted the Curse of the Wulfen and Banishment from the Fang to take the trial of Morkai and return triumphant or not at all." When the mix is right they get a Space Wolf and when it is wrong they get the ravening beasts known as the Wulfen, I think the Wulfen are those who were pre-disposed to turn to Wulfen but only did so from the effect of Chaos space on them after spending too much time in the Eye of Terror. Sternhammer's Wulfen Guard "Every brother of the legion bore the marks of the Canis Helix - the beast that lurks within every Space Wolf" Thylacine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-1721206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
traitor_dice Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 sounds to me like the canis helix isn't an implant or anything, but is the name used to refer to the lupine presence in their mind, which is probably a side effect of the geneseed itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2170171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Honestly I would think that the word Helix gave it away? Much like the double helix of our DNA, the Canis Helix is the genetic makeup of the Space Wolves, carried within the Geneseed and which mutates the DNA of the host when implanted (much like the various Implants mutate the Marine's physical body). Like our DNA, this Canis Helix carries within it the signifiers of the species, all it's physical attributes, behaviors, etc. etc. (stuff like eye color, skin color, hair color, any hereditary diseases, and in this case, longer fangs, leathery skin, yellowed eyes, enhanced senses bolstered by various implants, the fast growth of body hair, etc.) Keep in mind we're talking of stuff at the cellular level. The Canis Helix is not some Implant, or a fluid or any type of liquid that is injected or injested. It is not separate from the Geneseed, it IS the Geneseed. Much like organ transplant today, there is always the issue of compatibility, and hence where some brothers are more likely to succumb to their feral instincts. Those who are unsuitable or who are not 100% compatible with the geneseed become Wulfen. Once the transformation of the DNA is done, the Canis Helix is what makes up the Marine's genetic structure, and remains there. That is now the new genetic make up of the Space Wolf, setting himself up that much more apart from his fellow Astartes. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2170212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growler67 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 The Helix is a refernce to the physical structure of DNA. The Canis is a descriptor of what kind of DNA is being referenced. Of course it's all fluff as this isn't the 41st Milenium, as far as I know. Initiates initial encounter with the Canis Helix is the first actual step in becoming a Space Wolf after they arrive at the Fang. It is introduced during the ceremony when they drink from the Chalice of Russ. The elixir they consume contains the Canis Helix. They are they monitored closely for signs of rejection or mutation. All of this is in the first book in the Ragnar series of paperbacks. BTW, Space Wolves do not attend "boot camp" in the current common context. They undergo staged training both physically, academically and surgically as they are at the Fang. This is done in stages for a reason, one of which is to observe the initiates for signs of rejection or mutation. The implants are added in succession as their new bodies develop and accept/tolerate the surgeries. Healing between such operations is required and other forms of training and transformation then take place. In othe Chapters initiates become Scouts to learn the ways of Battle but with the Space Wolves one becomes a Blood Claw if one survives the chemical/physical/surgical transformation. Space Wolf Scouts are Veteran warriors that have experienced the lessons of Battle and thus ours are assigned and function differently than those of any other Chapters. I would highly recommend the Ragnar Omnibus, or paperback series if you can find them, as there is plenty of good and interesting information contained within. There is a reason it isn't contained within the Codex.............lack of space. [starship Troopers] "Would you like to know more?" [/starship Troopers] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2170224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaleOpener Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 The Canis Helix is the Wolves "mutant" gene seed. It causes the Space Wolves to grow long canines, and is where the Wulfen form comes from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2170541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I'm with Growler on this. I know that many don't consider the BL Books to be Canon, but I think the first book of the Ragnar series, "Space Wolf", to have a wonderful walk through of the process that a Space Wolf must undergo to become one of the Sons of Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2170614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatWolf Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 So practicly we dont need gene seeds to continue the chapter? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2174409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 No... geneseed is used- they talk about surgery and implants- we add in all the extra organs a space marine could want. The chalice ritual is a catalyst. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2174518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Exactly, remember the gene seed is a organ in and of itself, which must be implanted within the body in a certain spot....which, even given the advanced medical procedures, is highly unlikely to be done by ingestion of a brew. If you want to take the Space Wolf books as proof, then what did the Iron Priests bring over that had to be implanted into his chest with many veins and tendrils? It wasn't his second heart as they would have then described the other organs being implanted as well, and wouldn't have gotten it's own paragraph of the book in my opinion. The Cup of the Wulfen had to have been something that changed the natural chemical balance of the body to introduce the "beast within", it may be the thing needed for the human body to process the signals of the even greater senses that a Space Wolf gets. A human brain could not possibly be able to cope with the heightened senses given to him with just his natural brain. This may also explain why, in the Space Wolf books by King, they are isolated because the chemicals change the brain so much that it could cause extreme mental trauma during the body's time to absorb the brew. After this is complete they are sent out into the wilds to learn how to use their new found senses or die trying, as is the way of the Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2174693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I believe that the Canis Helix is both the catalyst for physical change within the wolves, given from the geneseed and derived from Russ himself and also a source of thier strength of character. It is an interesting mix of genetic manipulation which affects the growth of the wolves (and meshes with the other implants) which the wolves then must mentally dominate....or else it will overtake them and they become wulfen. I don't think that wulfen are those genetically or physicaly pre-disosed to turn but those who lack the mental fortitude (or were lax for a moment) to control the power of the Canis Helix upon thier own bodies. ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2174712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Honestly I would think that the word Helix gave it away? Much like the double helix of our DNA, the Canis Helix is the genetic makeup of the Space Wolves, carried within the Geneseed and which mutates the DNA of the host when implanted (much like the various Implants mutate the Marine's physical body). Like our DNA, this Canis Helix carries within it the signifiers of the species, all it's physical attributes, behaviors, etc. etc. (stuff like eye color, skin color, hair color, any hereditary diseases, and in this case, longer fangs, leathery skin, yellowed eyes, enhanced senses bolstered by various implants, the fast growth of body hair, etc.) Keep in mind we're talking of stuff at the cellular level. The Canis Helix is not some Implant, or a fluid or any type of liquid that is injected or injested. It is not separate from the Geneseed, it IS the Geneseed. Much like organ transplant today, there is always the issue of compatibility, and hence where some brothers are more likely to succumb to their feral instincts. Those who are unsuitable or who are not 100% compatible with the geneseed become Wulfen. Once the transformation of the DNA is done, the Canis Helix is what makes up the Marine's genetic structure, and remains there. That is now the new genetic make up of the Space Wolf, setting himself up that much more apart from his fellow Astartes. DV8 Pretty much this right here. Coincides with the WD article way back when on the Space Wolves. It isn't a seperate entity in itself, it is part of the actual geneseed responsible for the above-mentioned mutations, etc, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148297-canis-helixs/#findComment-2183614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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