Allocating Wounds

[johnnyW]

Hi,

 

I'm a bit confused about allocating wounds, and hopefully someone can educate me :pinch: There are two scenarios, one with a simple target unit (all models identically equipped), and a second scenario, with a complex target unit. In both cases the attacker rolls identically.

 

The Attacker

 

6 models, 2 with low AP weapons, and 4 with high, all 6 shoot, hit and wound.

 

Scenario 1 - 5 target models all equipped identically

 

According to rules on p20 there is no need to allocate wounds, so the 2 low AP cause death (no saves allowed) and 4 high AP are succesfully saved, so 2 models are removed.

 

Scenario 2 - Again 5 target models, but 1 target model is different, e.g. marine sergeant

 

In this case we follow rules on p25. And we allocate wounds selectively. 2 low AP wounds on 1 character, and 1 high AP wound on each of the other 4 models. Again the 4 rolled saves are successful, so no deaths for these 4, and, because both Low AP wounds are on the same model, he is the only casualty.

 

Is my interpretation of the rules correct? If so it seems a bit unfair on the attacker, as I would have thought that in scenario 2 the low AP wounds should be allocated to different models.

 

Many thanks

 

John

[SeattleDV8]

Your reading of the rules is correct. It seems a bit unfair until you factor in that it is either a Sgt. or a special weapon you will lose to this generally.

[Leethal]

Your interpretation is fine. Basically split up the dice for every other model and roll them.

 

So yes, you can in effect "keep" the big gun shots away from your precious special models if you do choose to replace it with say a boltgun shot.

[johnnyW]

Your reading of the rules is correct. It seems a bit unfair until you factor in that it is either a Sgt. or a special weapon you will lose to this generally.

 

I don't understand why I would lose a Sgt. or special weapon. Would I not allocate the two Low APs to a standard model, and allocate a saveable wound to the better models?

[Reglor]

Your reading of the rules is correct. It seems a bit unfair until you factor in that it is either a Sgt. or a special weapon you will lose to this generally.

 

I don't understand why I would lose a Sgt. or special weapon. Would I not allocate the two Low APs to a standard model, and allocate a saveable wound to the better models?

 

You roll the saves in batches, so the 4 standard models all roll their save in one go. If you give one of them two low AP wounds then that group takes two low AP wounds and remove two models, even if the two wounds were allocated on one model.

[johnnyW]

Ahh, my understanding was wrong! You roll in batches of targets and not attackers.

 

In Scenario 2, I would "roll" the 2 Low AP's and 3 saves for the 4 normal models at the same time, thus taking 2 casualties. I would then roll the save for the wound on my Sgt., which in this example would be successful. So I would have two casualties but would have minimised the risk to my Sgt. in scenario 2.

 

Alternatively, I could put both Low AP's on the Sgt., guaranteeing his death, but taking one less casualty than above.

 

Tricky game, great forum :P

 

John

[Gurian]

Ok how about this.. It happened to me yesterday-

 

In 1 shooting phase a squad of 7 Space Wolves (5 with 2 characters with 4+ invuln saves) I shoot with 2 squads first squad does 8 wounds at AP1 and 5 at AP5 (basically 8 not allowing a save) he was in open so cover save was taken.He puts the 5 wounds on the normal guys (3+) and then splits the 8 AP1 up between the 2 chars and 1 normal SW who he removes and then takes 4+ saves again all the AP1 hits and takes 1 wound on a 3 wound model.

 

Next I shoot 2 Heavy Bolters and a Plasma Cannon - wounding with 4 HB shots and cover all his models and wounding them with the Plas cannon. Once again he takes the HB shots on normal guys and the Plas cannon on the Chars. Saving all (was really lucky no doubt),

 

Now... my question is can he do this? I mean simply pile all the non savable wounds on a char who can take an invuln on them? Seems sort of out of the sprit of the game to me...

[Hexx]

Ok how about this.. It happened to me yesterday-

 

In 1 shooting phase a squad of 7 Space Wolves (5 with 2 characters with 4+ invuln saves) I shoot with 2 squads first squad does 8 wounds at AP1 and 5 at AP5 (basically 8 not allowing a save) he was in open so cover save was taken.He puts the 5 wounds on the normal guys (3+) and then splits the 8 AP1 up between the 2 chars and 1 normal SW who he removes and then takes 4+ saves again all the AP1 hits and takes 1 wound on a 3 wound model.

 

Next I shoot 2 Heavy Bolters and a Plasma Cannon - wounding with 4 HB shots and cover all his models and wounding them with the Plas cannon. Once again he takes the HB shots on normal guys and the Plas cannon on the Chars. Saving all (was really lucky no doubt),

 

Now... my question is can he do this? I mean simply pile all the non savable wounds on a char who can take an invuln on them? Seems sort of out of the sprit of the game to me...

 

 

?? Not really sure what you're saying here but...

 

If you actually read the rules.

-Total wounds have to be evenly distributed across all models.

So if (in your first example) you did 13 wounds to 7 models, 7 wounds are distributed however the SW player wants -but each model must take one hit)

Then the remaining 6 wounds are again divided across the 7 models however the SW player wants, but he has to spread them evenly across the models.

-So after the 13 wounds, he'll have 6 models taking 2 hits, and one model taking one hit.

 

Really this is very simple stuff, kinda boils down to "If you want to play the game, read the rules"

[nurglespuss]

WOW, how much did you get for your soul when you sold it to Games Workshop?

 

Why not just answer the question, the player learns, and gets better at the game?

 

Jeez, use your venom elsewhere.

[WarpSpawn]

Hexx,

 

No offense intended but you did come accross as a little abrasive there. No matter how many times you read the rules, there will always be some misunderstandings. To err is human and all that. Even if you do think you understand it, someone else putting forward their conflicting opinion will often create doubt where there should be none.

 

Gurian,

 

No, it does not seem like he distributed them properly. At best he should have been able to give 4 AP1 wounds to the 2 characters, which certainly could have been AP1 if he wanted to take the risk on their inv saves. This still leaves 4 AP1 shots, which I think means he should have lost 4 of the basic troopers (assuming they were identical).

 

Now this obviously would have effected the next round of shooting as he would not have had so many models to be wounded by the blast weapon, or to distribute any wounds to.

 

Even if they were all alive somehow, he still seems to have got it wrong. Once again, if all 7 models got wounded by the plasma, the most he could have given the characters was 2 plasma wounds each (taking into account the HB wounds). Again, assuming the other 5 were identical, this should have killed 3.

 

Incidentally, I am still not 100% sure of this myself so please feel free to correct any mistakes.

 

(Edited for an obvious error in my working out)

[hagg]

you semm to be right warpspawn

 

and because of that wound allocation system it is crucial to think about some weapon combinations in squads, especially in close combat it is really easy to minimize the effect of an power weapon under the right circumstances. an power weapon with another ini would do a better job in that cases, because if you do more wounds than enemy models are there, the power weapon saves would be stacked at one guy that is geared different.

i personally like the wound allocation system because it has that thrill everytime your squads come under heavy fire and your damn expensive power fist sergeant has to take some saves...

 

~hagg

[DevianID]

I played a Tau guy with Farsight + 7 man retinue, and each of the 8 total crisis suits was armed differently! Thus, if I did 8 wounds and he failed every save, for example, he would still have 8 models on the board! Thank god he failed a pin check though.

[Gurian]

Hexx,

 

No offense intended but you did come accross as a little abrasive there. No matter how many times you read the rules, there will always be some misunderstandings. To err is human and all that. Even if you do think you understand it, someone else putting forward their conflicting opinion will often create doubt where there should be none.

 

Gurian,

 

No, it does not seem like he distributed them properly. At best he should have been able to give 4 AP1 wounds to the 2 characters, which certainly could have been AP1 if he wanted to take the risk on their inv saves. This still leaves 4 AP1 shots, which I think means he should have lost 4 of the basic troopers (assuming they were identical).

 

Now this obviously would have effected the next round of shooting as he would not have had so many models to be wounded by the blast weapon, or to distribute any wounds to.

 

Even if they were all alive somehow, he still seems to have got it wrong. Once again, if all 7 models got wounded by the plasma, the most he could have given the characters was 2 plasma wounds each (taking into account the HB wounds). Again, assuming the other 5 were identical, this should have killed 3.

 

Incidentally, I am still not 100% sure of this myself so please feel free to correct any mistakes.

 

(Edited for an obvious error in my working out)

This was how I read the rule at the time it happend as well, but he argued otherwise and I didn't want to stand there and fight over it, so I just allowed him to do it. It did affect the outcome of the game dramaticly.. but its still only a game.

didn't mean to cause so much of a problem here sorry.

[WarpSpawn]

Gurian,

 

Seriously, don't worry about it. You asked a reasonable question, that's all.

 

The new wound allocation rules can be a bit tricky to get your head around. Plenty of experienced players are still playing it wrong. I did not understand the bit about giving multiple low AP wounds to a group of identical models until Reglor's comment made me reread it properly.

 

It's even trickier if you are playing a game and your opponent seems sure of their interpretation. It's never clear when you should stand you ground and when you should just let it slide and get on with it. It is, as you say, only a game.

[Master Vandor]

then splits the 8 AP1 up between the 2 chars and 1 normal SW who he removes and then takes 4+ saves again all the AP1 hits and takes 1 wound on a 3 wound model.

Sorry but i can't resist commenting on this. You shot a Space Wolf Character with a melta and they took a wound...Space wolves have nothing to prevent insta death so that model would have been killed there by that shot.

 

 

Next I shoot 2 Heavy Bolters and a Plasma Cannon - wounding with 4 HB shots and cover all his models and wounding them with the Plas cannon. Once again he takes the HB shots on normal guys and the Plas cannon on the Chars. Saving all (was really lucky no doubt),

 

Now... my question is can he do this? I mean simply pile all the non savable wounds on a char who can take an invuln on them? Seems sort of out of the sprit of the game to me...

 

As someone else said you do total wounds and divide them up. If the plasma hit all and models and in your example wounded all. Then only one of those could have gone on each hero thus killing the rest of the wounded marines. The real question here is who takes the saves from the hvy bolter...you may have to resolve blasts first (i know you resolve them seperately if there are multi) in which case the heros would have had to save against those.

 

Sounds like the person you played either unintentional or intentionally screwed you over.