Faith Points question

[hunterkiler86]

Hello all! im new to SoB and i was wondering about Faith Points and how they are used. my question is: are faith points replenishing throughout the game, or do you only get the certain amount?

 

example:

 

lets say i have 1 cannoness, 3 SoB squads, and 1 Seraphin squad. that would give me a grand total of 6 faith points. now are these 6 points treated as once you use them, you loose them? or do they stay at 6 the whole game?

 

thanks!

[number6]

If you keep your faithful models alive, then that's all you get!

 

However, as per the "Martyrdom" rule on p. 18, almost every time you lose a faithful character or unit you will get those Faith points back. If you lose your Seraphim, you get 1 FP back. If you lose your Canoness, you get 2 FPs back.

[Chengar Qordath]

Canoness is only two faith points, not three.

 

Also, fyi the two best faith powers to use are Divine Guidance and Spirit of Martyr.

[Melissia]

Indeed they are, although one is more than tempted to use Hand of the Emperor on a Canoness w/Blessed Weapon when she is striking down vehicles (yay three S7 power weapon attacks)

[Eddie Orlock]

I heard that Blessed Weapons were passe and that all the cool girls used Evicerators these days.

[number6]

I heard that Blessed Weapons were passe and that all the cool girls used Evicerators these days.

I've always preferred eviscerators over blessed weapons. You should have enough faith to afford giving your Canoness a 2+ invul save when she needs it. Take the hits, then smash down whatever it is that's trying to off you. (CD: Thanks for noting the typo. :P)

[Grabsnikk]

Not everyone uses an Eviscerator on their Canoness. Sure, it can do a lot of damage and is versatile, but I have found that whenever I use a Canoness with Eviscerator she always manages to get herself killed. This is probably due to my ability to to roll nothing but 1s when using her. However, when I use a Canoness with Blessed Weapon my opponents actually find her a pain in the a$$, and for some reason she just will not die. I'm kind of starting to think that the Blessed Weapon she carries somehow causes her to be blessed by the Emperor and under his protection, weird I know....

[Imperator Mos]

I usually ( 90%) take Celestine, so I've got a BW no matter what.

 

Of course you should always be aware of what happens if she does die...

[Melissia]

Yeah, the eviscerator is stronger, but you don't want to strike at I1 against EVERY enemy. for example, when trying to kill a nob or warboss w/power klaw, I'd rather try and kill him before he is able to attack.

[number6]

Yeah, the eviscerator is stronger, but you don't want to strike at I1 against EVERY enemy. for example, when trying to kill a nob or warboss w/power klaw, I'd rather try and kill him before he is able to attack.

Personal preference, methinks. In my last game with a Canoness she took down a greater daemon, a chaos termie squad, and put two wounds on a daemon prince before finally succumbing. But in other games (e.g., Imperial Guard, Tau, mech Eldar), I've used her eviscerator to tear up tanks more than monsters. I just like the superior versatility, feeling that it's worth the loss of Initiative most of the time.

 

No doubt, the blessed weapon is a fine, fine instrument. A Canoness should always have one or the other ... and an inferno pistol, cloak, and mantle (if not a jump pack as well).

[mercenary]

I second number 6 views on eviscerators, I have generally always run my canoness that way, actually did you suggest it to me in the first place number 6? I have been running a twin canoness, supported with twin seraphim units lately, which really does quite well and gives you a healthy 6 faith points before other selections! In 5th the blessed weapon has really received a boon against armour where before it was quite weak and ineffectice, as now when you assault you hit the rear armour and with strength 7 (with faith) hits and a re-roll of a failed to hit roll, you can get the job done in most cases. The eviscerator is even better in 5th now against tanks, for the very same reasons and can crack those landraiders that a blessed weapon can not. Also with an eviscerators 2d6 armour penetration, you can rely less on faith to boost strength, and still crack those weaker tanks. All in all they are both great weapons, just peoples preference varies, and faith usage dictates how each canoness equiped model is used. As a side note Seraphim are even better tank hunters in 5th, due to the increased effectives of the krak grenades they carry against rear armoured attacks on tanks. In some ways this enables you to take the blessed weapon on the canoness, as the overall effectiveness of the combined canoness/seraphim anti-tank role is not reduced drastically.

[Coppella]

Lately, I haven't run my Canoness without a retinue. The VSS in the retinue always has the Eviscerator. This gives me a great way to smash anything really. Mobs of enemies will get smoked by the Canoness and Celestians, while the Celestian VSS cleans up stragglers or really tough enemies or vehicles.

[hunterkiler86]

If you keep your faithful models alive, then that's all you get!

 

However, as per the "Martyrdom" rule on p. 18, almost every time you lose a faithful character or unit you will get those Faith points back. If you lose your Seraphim, you get 1 FP back. If you lose your Canoness, you get 2 FPs back.

so does that mean once i use a test of faith successfully, my total pool of faith points goes down?

[Toogeloo]

Here is long and the short of it.

 

That list with Canoness, 3 Troops, and Seraphim. That is 6 faith but don't think that number is locked in, that is just what you start with. Every time you even attempt a Test of Faith, just subtract one point from your faith pool. It doesn't matter if you pass of fail, you lose one faith for every act tested (and remember that if you fail, you can't try again until the next appropriate phase). IC's like the Canoness or the Saint that aren't attached to squads test against their leadership, not their squad size, but you still lose a faith point for making the attempt. Squads must be completely faithful (no throwing that Inquisitor in a squad of Sisters, they can't be faithful that way) in order to make tests of faith. Any time a faithful character (Veteran Superiors of Dominion, Retributors, and Battle Sisters, as well as the the Heroine) die, you get back to your faith pool the total amount of faith they originally contributed. If the squad itself is Faithful (Celestians and Seraphim) then the entire squad must be wiped out to get back the faith it originally contributed.

 

You start with 6 points. So let's say in the first turn you used 2 Divine Guidance checks. Pass or fail, you are now down to 4 points. During your opponent's turn you activate Spirit of the Martyr for your Seraphim. Down to 3 points now. But he managed to kill your Canoness. Back up to 5 points. See how this is working?

[the jeske]

eviscetator . faith ..str 8 =instant death on meq HQ [lets face it most of the opposing armies] .

 

blessed weapon faith ..str 7 or 5 hiting and 4 and wouding on 2/3 .. no instant death + most HQs have some sort of an inv and more attacks then the cannones = dead cannones .

[Melissia]

Try hitting Str5, I6. hand of the Emperor is going to be harder for a lone Canoness to implement than The Passion anyway, due to the Test of FAith.

 

Toogeloo: They must FIRST make a leadership test, and then afterwards pass the test of faith . Or at least that's the way I read it.

[Toogeloo]

Mel- If you are refering to the IC's and their independent Faith Checks, it is simply a leadership check that is the test of faith, there is no other testing afterwards. This allows a Solo Canoness to use that Hand of the Emperor with her Eviscerator to ID! the T4 IC. If you tested on a squad size of 1 after making a leadership test, there is no way that the Canoness could ever use Hand.

[GTang]

Although no one runs them without them, don't forget that you need the Vets in the squads to get the faith points. If the Vet dies, the troop loses the ability to use Faith after that phase is done (unless a Canoness joins them).

[Melissia]

The wording is kinda awkward around that.

 

"When attempting to use an Act of Faith while operating independantly, a Faithful Independant Character must pass an unmodified Leadership test to do so."

 

It doesn't say "instead" or anything similar, so based on it's wording, it sounds as if you must atke the leadership test ontop of the test of faithh.

[GTang]

I think it's mostly in the context of the sentence before it that makes it seem as if only the LD is used.

 

As if it were saying, "If it's with a squad use the normal rules. If it's by itself, it must roll an LD test." Taken out of context, the sentence doesn't say more than it does.

 

The Faith rules are badly organized. For example, there are differences between the rules in the main text and the sheet at the back of the book.

[Melissia]

Yeah they are. Too bad they aren't FAQed to clear up this kind of badly worded crap.

[Toogeloo]

Well, as I exampled, if you do it the way you imply, you just pissed off solo Canoness users around the world and their Instant Gib Eviscerator attacks against T4 IC's. I think it is safe to assume the Leadership Test is the only test needed to use an Act of Faith. After all, why would we penalize the most faithful units in our army? If anything they should get their tests autopassed like Litanies gives when operating independently, but that is an argument for another time in another forum ^_^

[ArmouredWing]

I have to admit that I much prefer A BW over Evisc any day. I much prefer the MC's pow weapon strikes at I, regardless of what T I'm going up against and in a standard play all comers list I find it a lot handier when I'm sudddenly faced with the massed ranks of Nids.

 

That said I do tend to use my canoness in a more general support role rather than going toe-toe with IC's and she's usually geared up with an IP, BW, MB's, Rosarius, Jump Pack, CoSA & Mantle so that she can do her own thing but also step in to support units if they need a little more muscle.

 

Its horses for courses, so don't worry too much about her loadout, play her for a bit and you'll soon work out what's good for you.

[hunterkiler86]

Here is long and the short of it.

 

That list with Canoness, 3 Troops, and Seraphim. That is 6 faith but don't think that number is locked in, that is just what you start with. Every time you even attempt a Test of Faith, just subtract one point from your faith pool. It doesn't matter if you pass of fail, you lose one faith for every act tested (and remember that if you fail, you can't try again until the next appropriate phase). IC's like the Canoness or the Saint that aren't attached to squads test against their leadership, not their squad size, but you still lose a faith point for making the attempt. Squads must be completely faithful (no throwing that Inquisitor in a squad of Sisters, they can't be faithful that way) in order to make tests of faith. Any time a faithful character (Veteran Superiors of Dominion, Retributors, and Battle Sisters, as well as the the Heroine) die, you get back to your faith pool the total amount of faith they originally contributed. If the squad itself is Faithful (Celestians and Seraphim) then the entire squad must be wiped out to get back the faith it originally contributed.

 

You start with 6 points. So let's say in the first turn you used 2 Divine Guidance checks. Pass or fail, you are now down to 4 points. During your opponent's turn you activate Spirit of the Martyr for your Seraphim. Down to 3 points now. But he managed to kill your Canoness. Back up to 5 points. See how this is working?

yes. that is exactly what i wanted to know. thanks :P

[Eddie Orlock]

yes. that is exactly what i wanted to know. thanks ;)

Isn't that how they put it in the Codex? :huh: You do own the Codex, right? :tu: