Lord Ragnarok Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Just got done reading the 8th installment in the Horus Heresy Novel series. And much to my surprise SW's play a large part for the majority of the book. Worthy read, I liked it much more than I thought given the criticism of Ben Counter. Keep in mind you don't have to read the rest of the books just to read this one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I wouldnt say the wolves get the love they deserve, this being a ultra book the ultra marine is kicking the SW's as to much in my eye. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1726862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 True, but as you said, it's an ultra book, it has to kick the wolf, just wait til the wolves get their own book. :sweat: I liked it personally, was nice to see a wolf being so heroic (at the end anyway). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1726869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I was actually disappointed in how the wolves were represented. Yes, we drink and are rowdy, but I thought that the way we were represented didnt do justice for who the space wolves actually are. The bloodclaws are essentially a wallpaper and have no impact overall for the book. And I'm sorry, if there was a marine using psychic powers on board that ship, there would be no forgiveness for that. SW's were willing to go and destroy an entire planet worth of space marines due to psychic powers being used, even when used to warn the emperor. I found BftA to be one of the weakest of the HH books, and I thought it was probably Counter's weakest effort. The characters were bland, the storyline was dragged out and weak, and most of the relevant fluff breezed over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1726943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Well let's not spoil it for everyone! Please use the spoiler tags SPOILER ALERT. Do not Read unless you want to have the book spoiled for you I disagree with you Onlyindeath. Keep in mind the following would give Brynngar pause... 1. Brother on Brother SM killing is still out of bounds in the heresy/pre-heresy mindset of the SM's. Until pushed over the edge by events of traitors it is a stubborn, grinding path to believe one has to kill your brother SM. We see this from the outset in the first novel with Loken trying to understand why a marine from his own legion blew off the head of another. 2. Brynngar was honour bound to Cestus, especially after their duel that he lost. SW's are all about honour for him to go back on that would not have been wolfy. Also.... 3. SW's-New current fluff from the HH novels has Russ going to Prospero to bring Magnus back to the emperor to explain his continued use of Psychic powers. Not until the still trusted, but otherwise unknown to be the traitor scum he was, Horus sent a communicae to Russ stating that Magnus was not only using psychic powers but was consorting with warp spawn, AND explicetly told him to attack Magnus did we invade prospero 4. I think the DA book was far worse then this effort by counter(especially the ending of DoA)...but that is opinion. I thought counter explored the characters quite well, especially Cestus' nightmare state and Brynngar's dream state about Fenris. 5. Why do you think the story was drawn out? I thought the pace fine. Good build up for me for the ending 6. With respect to Maxx and the love they deserve....hmmm I dunno as stated, it is a Ultra book and I think Brynngar came off as a bad Mofo. He also gave Cestus a pretty damn good beating. Also Cestus is a friggin Captain and Brynngar was a WG Pack Leader for some BC's. As far as the BC's impact...again an Ultra book. How would you like it if BA's, BT's DA's were in one of our books and stole all the glory? ;) Again, For a book for another chapter/legion for us to get so much play is pretty rewarding for me. Sure if it were OUR novel I would have been like "WTH? Keep these dudes from stealing our thunder." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I haven't read this book yet but there was already a post about this book previously. Some people will like it (I probibly will as I like any book with Space Wolves in it even if it sucks =P) but I gatta finish the rest before I get to read it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Well let's not spoil it for everyone!Please use the spoiler tags SPOILER ALERT. Do not Read unless you want to have the book spoiled for you I disagree with you Onlyindeath. Keep in mind the following would give Brynngar pause... 1. Brother on Brother SM killing is still out of bounds in the heresy/pre-heresy mindset of the SM's. Until pushed over the edge by events of traitors it is a stubborn, grinding path to believe one has to kill your brother SM. We see this from the outset in the first novel with Loken trying to understand why a marine from his own legion blew off the head of another. 2. Brynngar was honour bound to Cestus, especially after their duel that he lost. SW's are all about honour for him to go back on that would not have been wolfy. Also.... 3. SW's-New current fluff from the HH novels has Russ going to Prospero to bring Magnus back to the emperor to explain his continued use of Psychic powers. Not until the still trusted, but otherwise unknown to be the traitor scum he was, Horus sent a communicae to Russ stating that Magnus was not only using psychic powers but was consorting with warp spawn, AND explicetly told him to attack Magnus did we invade prospero 4. I think the DA book was far worse then this effort by counter(especially the ending of DoA)...but that is opinion. I thought counter explored the characters quite well, especially Cestus' nightmare state and Brynngar's dream state about Fenris. 5. Why do you think the story was drawn out? I thought the pace fine. Good build up for me for the ending 6. With respect to Maxx and the love they deserve....hmmm I dunno as stated, it is a Ultra book and I think Brynngar came off as a bad Mofo. He also gave Cestus a pretty damn good beating. Also Cestus is a friggin Captain and Brynngar was a WG Pack Leader for some BC's. As far as the BC's impact...again an Ultra book. How would you like it if BA's, BT's DA's were in one of our books and stole all the glory? :lol: Again, For a book for another chapter/legion for us to get so much play is pretty rewarding for me. Sure if it were OUR novel I would have been like "WTH? Keep these dudes from stealing our thunder." Ok, in reply, I can see WHY he took the actions that he took, I just thought the storyline overall was a bit weak. You have to realize JUST how much of a capital crime using psych powers was. the Emperor himself decreed that they will not be used. nothing could be more anathema to most chapters than that. Yes, I agree the DA book was worse. That one just made my eyes bleed. I have to disagree about the character devolopment. The ultras were rather dry, even for smurfs, and i thought Brynngar was a poorly written imitations of what a "bad Mofo" space wolf could be. Check out the king novels, or hell, even the lightner novels (haegr) for what a good spirited, quick to temper, bad mofo spacewolf should be. Brynngar just seemed like a cheap knockoff of what could be. I gotta say, I am GREATLY heartened by the fact that Abnett seems to be the author for the SW HH novel. He's a master of drawing out personality from characters, and I do think he'll truly represent SW's in the 40k universe. I thought the story was drawn out simply because there wasnt much substance there. It was a very linear plot. Any developments along the way were breezed over and didn't really add much to the overall story. I think about all you can really take from this is "a couple guys saved macragge" after a whole lot of dry action. Even the word bearers were a bit bland. I'd take dark apostle over this novel any day. True, this was a word bearers/ultras book, but I dont think either chapter is given much justice or character. I hope the whichever book/writer addresses the battle for Calth will do a MUCH better job of representing these chapters. On a side, note, read Titanicus if you want to go through a book in a day. I couldnt put that one down! Ok, back on topic. If you read this book for fluff, you will NOT get much out of it SW wise, or any chapter wise frankly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Oh come on guys the Spoiler tags aren't necessary, its pretty self evident for anyone who enters a thread titled "Battle for the Abyss" that there's gonna be some spoilers. Personally I thought this book was a complete waste of time, I haven't been so dissapointed with a 40k book since the Blood Angels series. Here's why: 1. The plot line was... pointless. It was about an event that up till now never was touched on in the Heresy that added nadda, nobody survived so who told the story anyway? It didn't have a huge impact on anything and if the book didn't exist we would be no worse off. I mean the entire plot of the book is based on the creation of some super ship and its subsequent destruction. Just summarising it sounds week and the book was no better. Calth, now Calth would have been freaking awesome, instead we get a puny summer action flic plot that doesn't really impact the Horus Heresy in any way. Oh not to mention how stereotypical and predictable the plot. "Oh there's this super uber awesometastic Word Bearer's ship that like totally blows the loyalist fleet apart, but by some miraculous chance the sheer arrogance of the noob Word Bearers allows the last surviving Space Wolf to blow up it's reactors and like... totally cause this sweet chain reaction that blows the ship apart and like the Ultramarine dude totally went mano-ar-mano with the Word Bearer's dude and they like killed each other man and how sweet is that?" Its childish, its predictable, its incredibly dry and linear, deffinitely gets two thumbs way down. 2. The Characters just... sucked. None of them really had a solid personality, the Ultramarines were dry as its possible to be, the Word Bearers ran around like headless chickens, the World Eaters and Space Wolves bumbled around managing to mostly get themselves killed and mess up a few "headless chicken" Word Bearers in the process and the Thousand Son Character was just odd, his motivations never explored and his character very shallow. Honestly apart from the opening scene where the Blood Claws and the Wolf Guard brawled I felt the Space Wolves weren't given nearly enough credit and became backwards barbarians for the rest of the book. Daemon influence or no daemon influence it was a let down. The excerpt from the Black Library site was IMO the best part of the book and it was all downhill from there. 3. Nobody survived... so who told the story? I mean its not necessarily a totally bad thing but it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Everybody both good and bad dies. I think it would have been cool to at least have the Thousand Son and the World Eater survive and join the few Traitor Legion loyalists so at least someone would be left to tell the tale. I mean ok so the writing wasn't that bad and for the length of the book the characters could have been worse and the fluff wasn't glaringly bad, but lets face it the plot was what really tanked this book. It was just juvenile and utterly predictable. The plot was something I'd expect from a Star Trek flick, or reminded me of Star Wars Episode IV. Ok I know I'm being very cinical but really I expected a lot better from a Horus Heresy book. Yet I've found Descent of Angels, Legion, Fulgrim, and Battle for the Abyss to all be a let down in one way or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 aye titanicus was a VERY GOOD Read. i couldnt put that puppy down Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Didn't really like BftA. Just nothing in it of any value. Also, are the Word Bearers contractually obliged to be camp pantomine villians or is it just Swallow and Counter who write them like that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Now if the wolfguard killed the dread all on is own than he would have been a lot more bad ass in my eyes, even if he passed out after, but in comes the World Eater to save him. But in the end it was good to see why we dont ow anything to the smurfs :angry: but they do ow us Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 BftA was not a bad read but it was not nearly as good as the first four. I agree that i would have loved to read a bit more about the SW in BftA. And that the WE saved the WG was not what i have expected. I think the only charakter with some deep had been the TSon. Ok, they never mentioned what his motives had been, but on the other hand he had been the best worked out character in this book. For DoA i must say if i want to read a knightly novel i read fantasy. I don´t know why so many people don´t like Fulgrim and Legion. I enjoyed both. I´m not a fan of the EC and i never will be, but it was a fantastic read. The story was good. Legion on the other hand is a different talk. While i read the book i ask myself what does this have to do with the Alpha Legion, but the more i read i became aware to me how suptile Abnett had worked in the AL into his story and i loved the idea for the end. C´mon, when i read the part when they made contact with the cabal was fantastic. I had the impression that Alpharius had written the book himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Oh come on guys the Spoiler tags aren't necessary, its pretty self evident for anyone who enters a thread titled "Battle for the Abyss" that there's gonna be some spoilers I disagree. Although you are correct that folks should "assume" spoilers are discussed. We know what happens when we assume. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 We all just consider the thread done and grab a beer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I disagree. Although you are correct that folks should "assume" spoilers are discussed. We know what happens when we assume. Well than that would be their own fault now wouldn't it? People can't be stupid no more we gotta idiot proof threads? No offence intended. Blasted spoiler tags give me a bloody headache. :lol: We all just consider the thread done and grab a beer? Thats the best idea I've heard all day :D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1727926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 To be honest the Book started of well but started dargging towards the end Spoiler alert Ok so the Wolf gaurs leader to start off with came across quite well. But come on the guy killed his entire BC squad, That was to lame. Fair enough the BC were not really doing much (he must have went out the fang with the nerds of BC) Demon forced or not, Hell the World eaters did not manage that. Yes we came of as some backward planet barbarians but thats what happens when a non SW lovong writers writes about SW. Bring back the King, now he had love for us. I agree it was an Ultra book so we wolves did get a fair bit of coverage and for that we should be greatful. As for Fluff hardly any of these HH books are telling us something new. all they do is explore characters and give us an insight into them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148737-battle-for-the-abyss/#findComment-1728213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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