Godhead Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I am thinking about running 6 man grey hunter packs in razorbacks with the tl plasma gun/lc set up The thought behind it would be obviously dump off precious cargo on said objective and then park the razorback to be used as cover and fire support. The LC/TLPG adds punch for whatever comes along with AP. I was thinking pf, pw, 2x pp, pg, 3x bolters for my pack loadout. Alot of plasma associated with these squads. I typically never really bought extra armor for my transports, but I also used to play Bloodangles with their overcharged engines so I could dump my cargo off where i needed it before does anyone feel like xtra armor is worth the points? Also, do we use the codex space wolf costs for the upgrades for these vehicles or no? I have also been considering using the AC on the razorback instead of the las cannon, TLPG option. I'd really appreciate some input and advice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 1: Asking as to whether or not we use SW points Count this as a Warning, next time I break out the Exterminatussock. :) Search and thou shalt be rewarded 2. I would suggest using extra armor on your Razorback. 3. Sounds like a nice setup, although it would be a bit risky with that much plasma on that small a pack. 4. Just add a PMSB to the Razor so you can always fire on the move. The LC/TLPG is my favorite setup for Razors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 If you are only using this unit as an objective holder, then may I suggest something a tad cheaper? You have to realize there will be three types of objectives: those you own, those that will be contested, those your enemy owns. The vast majority will be "constested". For those objectives that you own, try something a little cheaper like 5 bg, 1 pg, 1 pw. For contested objectives, i would recomment a heavier outfit (including PF's and PP's), but I would take a larger squad so that they can take a few ablative wounds and still be effective. For enemy held objectives, unless you have drop pods, I would leave these be and instead try to just blast any scoring unit off of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 My search fu sucks, and I had read the post that came from warhammer world, but I was just wanting confirmation that i did indeed read it correctly. As for just being an objective holder, I had actually considered running 2 squads of GH's like that, and a large say 12-14 man BC pack in a LRC. I am not sure though. I could run 4 troop choices and put the 4th as a LARGE GH pack in a pod. I do like large tact squads in dps. They are rapid fire goodness. I have found that I kind of hate regular rhinos compared to the overcharged love of the blood angles rhinos, but razorbacks seem like a nice option vs regular run of the mill rhinos. I am new to space wolves and in my 1st couple of games I was running 7x gh with a pl in a rhino. I didnt really like that set up well. I am also not opposed to dropping the pp's in lieu of bolters. I would like to keep the PG though. I also like the rzback with the TLPG and the LC setup to help out with more AP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
saphius Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I run 1 GH squad in a pod to take objectives, 1 BC squad in a Crusader to take objectives and 1 GH squad in a Razorback to hold them. - Really no matter the points. Use elite units and Vehicles to contest objectives. So I do exactly what you are thinking of doing. I love the TLC PG combo. Used to run the TLLC but dropped in lue of the PG combo - Which has always been the favorite. I would run 6 with a Plasma gun and 1 PW w/ BP or Fist W/ Bolter. Sit back with decent firepower and some CC in case it's needed. I would give the Razorback extra armor. - If you ever get stunned it's nice to be able to relocate to a better fire position, or move out of harms way, rather than be stuck. Edit: Spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I used to run LC/TLPG.. but the new rules makes firing it difficult at best. Remember, only 1 weapon over str 4 if you move. I think I am going to go with the TLAC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 i tried the 6 man squad in a razorback but i found it to expensive and too fragile the razor back gets hit fast and 6 grey hunters can get pushed of an objective fast for the points . i use a 10 man squad in a rhino melta,2 power fists ,wolf totem seems to do the job nicely ,but i always push my assult packs into the enermy advance to keep em preocupied while hiting em with my fire support Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I should note, my Razorback is for my Long Fangs. Period. End of story. Grey Hunters are in Rhino, Pod, or on foot. The old men are the only ones using Razorbacks, and that tank is only there in case I need just a bit more firepower. Since we all know how I feel about Long Fangs (never worth their points), that should give you a hint to how often I use my razorback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1728968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I have to agree with Omar, I rarely use my razorbacks, and they don't really put out as much as you'd want them to. A well placed Rhino tank shock and cause more damage than a razorback shooting and is often 3 times cheaper than some of the variants. Now if only pods could land on something to "tank shock"... mmmm Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1729395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I find a razorback and a 6 man GH pack with bolters and PG good for holding close objectives. The only time they don't is when I get my ass handed to me. Not played much of 5th with my wolves but if i was being serious with them (gonna use my terminators this week) I'd use the above and BC + GH in rhino to assault an objective. My two pence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1729838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I haven't read the entire post yet (on my way out the door), so forgive me if this has already been suggested but: That is waaayyyy too many points for such a small squad. If you have a plasma meltdown you are going to lose a 35+ point marine. The squad I've become very fond of is a 6 man GH squad with, 2 PP, 1 PG and 3 Bolters mounted in an RB with TLHB (Prior to the Shiny SM transport rules, proven, though as of now still "unofficial"). Once the model is released I will be upgrading to a LC, TLPG. I use them as a Wolfikaze squad when I need to wipe out half a unit in 1 shooting phase. If I wanted them to, they could hold an objective just fine and it wouldn't be as much of a hit if they meet an untimely end. If I saw 6 SW holding an objective with a Pfist, Pweap and Plasma loadout; I would proceed to shoot them from a relatively safe spot. Granted, I may still take 1 plasma shot and 3 bolter shots a turn (at 24"), but if I roll enough dice even SM armor won't really help. I see the fist and power weapon as points that could be better spent towards a Landspeeder. ;) -Huzzah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1729988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 6 man GH packs are just not big enough to do the job. Razorbacks are also extremely ineffective with the LC/TLPG, have been since the rules change in 4th ed. Now, in 3rd.. thats all I took. Huzzah - I think you might be happier with a Vanilla army. If your not taking the options available to GH packs, your not taking advantage of the basic things that make our army worthwhile. Also, speeders suck now. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Also, speeders suck now. :D And that's why the only ones I use now are 3 MM variants in my salamanders army... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Eh, speeders arent terrible, just keep them cheap and dont give them more than one weapon so they can take full advantage of being "fast". Having a couple DS and pop units with meltas or flamers could potentially be tasty. I would rather take some bikes though... Back on track, I have to agree that I dont like a 6 man GH squad. It's just not enough bang for my buck. Even with 8 man squads, I sometimes find myself coming up short. I dont like taking specific "objective taking" units, because if you just have trash units doing that, usually they will just get killed off and look, no more objective. I prefer to take all squads as having the potential to kick some butt, then move off and take objectives towards the end of the game with the survivors of the unit. Even if I start off with a unit defending an objective, I like to have it as a powerful squad, able to pour out some covering fire at 24". I also dont like razor backs as "advancing" vehicles, trying to sieze objectives. They are good for defense, but charging forward, they are just begging to be cracked open like an egg, exposing your understrength squad to withering fire. As they are a bigger threat than just a rhino, they are sure to draw some anti-tank fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Sometimes, if I am really hurting for points, I will drop 1-2 GH/BC, but I never INTEND to take small units. The one time I did it was just to get that TLLC on the razorback, and they were there to do nothing but hold an objective. It worked ok... but just didnt feel right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 i toatly agree with you lars had a very similar experiance full squad in a rhino much better in the mid field roll ,a combined arms aproach so ill throw my blood claws forward with a ven dread and a speeder out on the flank on anti-tank duty ,i always have a fire base of rune priest,full grey hunters as a body guard for some long fangs and i use a pred destructor with las pods for extra punch wolf guard when i use em are for hero hunting plain a simple razorbacks have thin armour and once the squad is walking there toast in small numbers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 We have the commas, but no periods. Almost there... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hmmm... clearly I am the Dark Horse of the Fang. My Great Company sees 3 squads of GH's, each with a Meltagun/PF/PW. At 1500pts they are backed up by a Dakka Pred, LRC/BC combo and Venerable Dreadnought and a Vindicator. So far it's proved effective, except for it's first game where I went from winning to losing (from 4-2 KP's to 5-7 - though this was more due to my inability to roll higher than a 2 on the vehicle damage chart, and his inability to roll lower than a 6...) I've found that this combination makes the most out of the versitility of the Hunters, and if these 3 squads team up during the early stages of the game on one flank, especially with all the other armour on show opponents can underestimate them... Only once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I run my GH packs with PW/PF and Melta/Flamer.. but at 10, not 6. Which are you using? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrim Blackwolf Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I would recommend against taking smaller grey hunter packs as in my experience they tend to drop fairly fast, especially when trying to assault or hold a contested objective. But.... If you want to take a 6 man pack in a RB, I would suggest 4 x Bolter & CCW, 1 x Bolter & PF/PW and 1 x Plasma Gun. A nice cheap pack which can sit on an objective, put out decent fire power and can survive an assault long enough for help to arrive. Arm the RB with either an HB, AC, PG/LC or Twin LC depending on whether the Razor Back is providing long range fire support or supporting an assault on an objective. Hope this helps Thorgrim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hmmm... clearly I am the Dark Horse of the Fang. My Great Company sees 3 squads of GH's, each with a Meltagun/PF/PW. At 1500pts they are backed up by a Dakka Pred, LRC/BC combo and Venerable Dreadnought and a Vindicator. So far it's proved effective, except for it's first game where I went from winning to losing (from 4-2 KP's to 5-7 - though this was more due to my inability to roll higher than a 2 on the vehicle damage chart, and his inability to roll lower than a 6...) I've found that this combination makes the most out of the versitility of the Hunters, and if these 3 squads team up during the early stages of the game on one flank, especially with all the other armour on show opponents can underestimate them... Only once. We're not against grey hunters... quite the opposite I rarely use blood claws now (in my pod lists) and LOVE GH's. We're against the use of small (6-man) GH squads, which you failed to explain the size of your units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Huzzah - I think you might be happier with a Vanilla army. If your not taking the options available to GH packs, your not taking advantage of the basic things that make our army worthwhile. Lars, those are fightin' words... However, thinking back over your post I may not have been very clear. I run a SINGLE GH pack like that. On the whole Land Speeder thing...I love them (Standard MM setup), I run two single Speeders even if they explode in a fiery ball of death, popping one or two tanks/Dreads make them totally worth it, but that is a discussion for a different thread. -Huzzah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Id take 5 bolters and a plasma gun if you want the plasma, he has a longer range and 2 shoots if in 12 ", plasma pistols only have the one shot in 12" so you got the same amount of shots and a longer range. Id also take at least one fist or PW, Id go fist, you don't want to be fighting something you cant kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1730981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I usually run one 6 man pack to hold my home objective, and arm them with bolters and a plasma gun. They can hold there own in combat if needs be and i always try to keep them in cover. Has always work well for me so far. Front line packs get the CC goodies, but I'm tending to use blood claws more these days for my 'assault' packs, backed up with wolf guard and normally a wolf priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1731146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Huzzah - Just seemed like you supported the VM style of squads, so you might as well get the advantage from it. I say that to anyone that plays wolves and wont use the special rules we get for them. Its all good.. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/148887-grey-hunter-squad-set-up/#findComment-1731172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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