5th Ed Rulebook FAQ

[the jeske]

the question is in an edition with few options and lists being forced on to players is it worth using the codex sm and spending some stuff on inq stuff and if yes then which one , considering a lot of it doesnt work anymore or is really reall substandard ?

[number6]

Just wanna say: My complaints stem purely from a rules standpoint. I agree that the Inquisition armies -- DH in particular -- are not "the most competitive" armies out there. That isn't what bothers me. I am perfectly satisfied with my game-time performances, both for fun and for tourney games. And screwed up rules or not, the army can win games against very tough opponents.

 

I also maintain that the Inquisition maintains the best fluff of any "race" in 40K, hands down. Not even a contest.

Furthermore, the models remain my favorite of any force's. You just can't top the Sisters, GKs, Inquisitors, and Inquisitorial henchmen.

 

No, what brings me down is exactly what I said before: the requirement to explain my army's rules every time I play the game. And because playing the game is my ultimate goal, and the part I enjoy the most out of all this "hobby", I am looking forward to not having to do GW's job for them. This is supposed to be my fun time, not my aggravation time.

[Wolf's Bane]

Just wanna say: My complaints stem purely from a rules standpoint. I agree that the Inquisition armies -- DH in particular -- are not "the most competitive" armies out there. That isn't what bothers me. I am perfectly satisfied with my game-time performances, both for fun and for tourney games. And screwed up rules or not, the army can win games against very tough opponents.

 

I also maintain that the Inquisition maintains the best fluff of any "race" in 40K, hands down. Not even a contest.

Furthermore, the models remain my favorite of any force's. You just can't top the Sisters, GKs, Inquisitors, and Inquisitorial henchmen.

 

No, what brings me down is exactly what I said before: the requirement to explain my army's rules every time I play the game. And because playing the game is my ultimate goal, and the part I enjoy the most out of all this "hobby", I am looking forward to not having to do GW's job for them. This is supposed to be my fun time, not my aggravation time.

 

disappointed is to fail

fail is to chaos

chaos is to death!

 

I sense much disappointed in you!!!!

 

I always wanted to say as Joda!! jejejejejejeje.

 

Fun apart, I agree with you that it is very aggravation to be in all games discussion about some rules of our book. For that reason I used to play a very different armies (it is true I used to get bored playing always as the same).

 

But the one army that gets my attention between some time is always GK. I love it, and is like my own child! ;)

 

In two weaks I'm playing a Tournament to welcome the new Marine Codex. Almost 95% of the players will go with Marines. I own one marine army myself but I'm planning go with my dear GK army.

 

I know I will not win but surely I will be the most different player there! :)

 

I'm trying a new GK army.

 

It has 5 Terminators with 2 PC (2 of them with SS&TH), 8 PAGK with incinerator, 8 PAGK with PC, 8 IST with 2 plasmas plus 1 rhino, 1 land raider, 1 Dread with TLC-ML, 1 Dread with Plasma Cannon plus incinerator

 

I wil do my best with them ... in the name of the Emperor and of course in the name of all of you!!! :)

 

Do not Give Up!!!

[Charred Heretic]

Here.

 

One thing to note, our dedicated transports just got re-dedicated. Also our useless wargear is now at least officially useless. Other than that it's pretty thin.

 

Wait a sec.

Who do you mean by "our"? WH or DH?

 

Check the WH FAQ:

WH FAQ (Upper Left)

 

It looks like WH remains free of this reversal.

[Gurian]

I agree as I read it. They removed the dedicated part in previous FAQ for WH codex.

[Ambro]

Things are not so bad, we must keep faith in the emperor brothers. :) For me im pleased with this FAQ as it clears things up as it shows even more for definite that codex should always overides the rulebook however obscure it may seem. I always tried to stick to RAW just for consistencies sake as otherwise the game could turn into a sticky mess of chaos but even I assumed that dedicated transports where no longer dedicated as the rulebook was very clear. Obvioulsy I and many others where all wrong and this is all the evidence if ever you should need it that the codex always overides the rulebook however obscure it may seem.

[Lord Cornilius]

No, what brings me down is exactly what I said before: the requirement to explain my army's rules every time I play the game. And because playing the game is my ultimate goal, and the part I enjoy the most out of all this "hobby", I am looking forward to not having to do GW's job for them. This is supposed to be my fun time, not my aggravation time.

 

The simple fact is Daemonhunter Armies never really "caught on" and are not very popular. The reason why a new codex is not on the herizon is because demand is very low. Any business is in business to satisfy the largest amount of customers in order to make more money. Common sense. The reason why you have to explain the rules isn't because GW has done something wrong, it's because few people are interested in DH armies, it doesn't sell. Come to think about it, I usually had to "explain" my army back in 4th edition as well because people were simply not familiar with DH wargear and special rules.

 

5th Edition has brought me back to the game; but making a large change to the rule system (even if for the better) is obviously going to cause gaming issues as GW simply cannot immediately rewrite 8 codices at one time. Common sense here.

 

The thought that older codices should be able to compete with codices written for this new edition is absurd, of course newer books are going to do better, they were written for this edition.

 

Personally, like most of you, I love the fluff, miniatures, and modeling opportunities DH armies provide, most people don't. That's why usually whenever a DH army emerges I find it's typically well painted.

 

I love the game and have been playing for almost 20 years, yeah Rogue Trader times is where I started. I like to come to the site to read about tactics and check out cool models, lately every topic is being hijacked by negativity. I think Charred Heretic has the write idea, if winning tournaments is your "thing" than it's quite obvious that you'll do better with a codex written from this edition. My "thing" is meeting with friends once a week, chucking some dice, and being able to rub in a DH victory 50% of the time.

[boreas]

I love the game and have been playing for almost 20 years, yeah Rogue Trader times is where I started. I like to come to the site to read about tactics and check out cool models, lately every topic is being hijacked by negativity. I think Charred Heretic has the write idea, if winning tournaments is your "thing" than it's quite obvious that you'll do better with a codex written from this edition. My "thing" is meeting with friends once a week, chucking some dice, and being able to rub in a DH victory 50% of the time.

 

We understand that, but the fact is that, for one thing, DH are not competitive. That irritates some of us. But even the friendliest gamer (me, haha!) is bothered by GW's inability to even FAQ the Codex properly. That leaves us with the obligation to point out bizarre rules with outdated phrasing. And that irritates the other players as well. We understand (somewhat) that we can't have the Codex right now. At the very least, we can live with that despite our disappointment. But the easy-to-do ruleproofing that is botched!? Not so sure...

 

Phil

[Lord Cornilius]

We understand that, but the fact is that, for one thing, DH are not competitive. That irritates some of us. But even the friendliest gamer (me, haha!) is bothered by GW's inability to even FAQ the Codex properly. That leaves us with the obligation to point out bizarre rules with outdated phrasing. And that irritates the other players as well. We understand (somewhat) that we can't have the Codex right now. At the very least, we can live with that despite our disappointment. But the easy-to-do ruleproofing that is botched!? Not so sure...

 

Phil

 

But the fact is that Daemonhunters were never really "competitive". That's why they threw in a bunch of special scenarios in the back of the book to "justify" the wargear, psychic powers, and special rules that do not pertain to anything other than 3rd edition Codex chaos.

 

As far as FAQ, it will never be enough no matter what they write for those expecting a "competitive" army.

[boreas]

But the fact is that Daemonhunters were never really "competitive". That's why they threw in a bunch of special scenarios in the back of the book to "justify" the wargear, psychic powers, and special rules that do not pertain to anything other than 3rd edition Codex chaos.

 

As far as FAQ, it will never be enough no matter what they write for those expecting a "competitive" army.

 

I think my previous post didn't convey what I meant. Actually having a friendly game with DHs, is hard. Having to explain that my FW can kiil outright (but doesn't instakill) that my Daemonic opponent hit me at Ini 1 but cannot benefit from sustained attack ect get old. People with whom I game often get to know those. but then again get to know my army and can easily get around the few gimmicks I can pull with the non-existent diversity (read Way of the Water Warrior!). Dilemma: do I play against new players to get more chance of winning (but having to explain all the quirks of the army) or do I play against my usual opponents (whom know the army and its weird rules but can easily crunch it)?

 

So basically, it went from non-competitive (for which I don't really care, even if winning would be fun once in a while) to not even nice for friendly games... Its still a nice add-on for IG, SoBs and apocalypse though.

 

Phil

[jakehunter52]

The simple fact is Daemonhunter Armies never really "caught on" and are not very popular. The reason why a new codex is not on the herizon is because demand is very low. Any business is in business to satisfy the largest amount of customers in order to make more money. Common sense. The reason why you have to explain the rules isn't because GW has done something wrong, it's because few people are interested in DH armies, it doesn't sell. Come to think about it, I usually had to "explain" my army back in 4th edition as well because people were simply not familiar with DH wargear and special rules.

 

It's true, DH are not a very popular army when compared to anything else, probably the only one that is more obscure than us is Dark Eldar and maybe Space Wolves. However, popularity is not an excuse. Take for example, Daemons. I never heard of anyone who played them before the new codex. Their models and rules were horrible and being an all metal army made it even worse. But they are essential to the 40k universe and GW knew that, which is why they brought them back and in fashion too if I might add! Even though they work for both systems, I believe that this was a considerable risk trying to revive this army (well....maybe not so much for WFB considering how broken they are in that). And once again, they are going to do this with Dark Eldar, who are getting just as much of a revamp as Daemons did and probably with a lot less guarantee of returns too. So why not DH? It would work even better this time around if they made plastic Grey Knights (imagine all the conversions to Honour Guard, Black Templar, Dark Angels, etc.), better rules so that their would be reason to take GKTs or just PAGKs and it wouldn't even matter if their was an army following, people would just buy the stuff to add to their own army. But their is a very dedicated following as shown here, compairable to the Blood Angels and the only reason it doesn't grow is because of the complexity of our rules due to lack of maintance and metal models. Many times have I been sitting at a GW painting when some dude comes in, first time their and looks around, talks to the red shirt and where does he end up? The Inquisition section. "Man, these are cool models." "I like the idea of playing futuristic knights!" "Purging and cleansing....sounds fun." And what does the red shirt reply? "Well, these guys kinda have an old codex and are hard to play. I would suggest you start with something else." :) Yes, I would agree with that advise, they are hard to play much less start with, but that is just it! GW is shooting itself in the foot! The demand is there, they just need to make it accessible.

 

5th Edition has brought me back to the game; but making a large change to the rule system (even if for the better) is obviously going to cause gaming issues as GW simply cannot immediately rewrite 8 codices at one time. Common sense here.

 

The thought that older codices should be able to compete with codices written for this new edition is absurd, of course newer books are going to do better, they were written for this edition.

 

Yeah, they can't rewrite 8 codexes at the same time. I'll give them that. But what they can do is have the consideration to make sure that codexes that are already falling behind in the current edition get updated before the new edition gets out, so that way every one has a fair chance at having fun and no one is getting the shaft. It is greed on their part, using the excuse that their has to be sacrifices made to serve the greater good, which so happens to serve their bottom line too. Really noble and considering the gamer community. Before 5th, they were creating a diversity of armies in the gaming community and suffered maybe a few more months of a ruleset that may not be the best but still works but why not include DH in this? Or even right after? Cause yeah, they just had to redo Space Marines, because their codex was in such dire need. And sure, codexes written for a new edition are going to be better, I don't argue that. But they have made well constructed codexes that remained competitive over a long time: IG (still see them win tournies all the time), Necrons ('Ard Boyz anyone), 'Nids. But your point is kinda mute when this doesn't really apply if they were already bad to start out with.

[the jeske]

Their models and rules were horrible and being an all metal army made it even worse.

you have never played against a demon bomb army list in the 4th ed ? for real never ? wow . they were quite popular and had at least 3 or 4 versions [the playable ones].

 

Yeah, they can't rewrite 8 codexes at the same time

no . they dont want to rewrite 8 codex at teh same time , because its against their sales policy .[splash and mulit wave mode ranges , mixing WFB with W40k etc ] . they could remake the list when they were other people in the DT they did . Remember when WFB had its big change? they did mini lists for all armies . All were playable [of course they had to FAQ them because they forgot stuff like fly for some dragons , fear for trolls etc].

[Wolf's Bane]

5th Edition has brought me back to the game; but making a large change to the rule system (even if for the better) is obviously going to cause gaming issues as GW simply cannot immediately rewrite 8 codices at one time. Common sense here.

 

Hmmm I think all of us have common sense. But I can see more inquisition armies than Blood Angels'one for example.

 

I can understand the need to sell codexes and maybe we are not the biggests costumers of GW, but, we have spent a lot of money, so, why not get a WD codex as BA? I think we will be happy getting that little love we are claimming! <_<

[OrdosInquisition]

So now, everything I wanted a Land Raider for is completely useless, that is not cool Games Workshop, not cool at all. The thing that worries me is, its going to make us all look like jerks. No one wants to go to a pick up game carrying four sheets of FAQ rules saying, sorry my gun doesn't work that way, my force weapon insta-kills your eternal warrior and my Land Raider Crusader is able to move as far as it wants and still fire, It's going to make Inquisition players look like elitist jerks.

Come on GW, how much sense does this make really?

So the space marines are okay to pick up any old marine squad in in a rhino, but that rhino over there, originally attached to a group of inducted guardsman tells the Inquisitor Lord, sorry sir, I don't transport the Inquisition?

Sorry, not convinced.

I understand the obvious benefits this gives us, particularly in the Daemonhunters department, however thats not going to help us if we look like a bunch of people circumventing the rules.

[Coppella]

Some excellent points have been brought up here.

Explaining things before a game starts. Yeah, first thing I ask when I agree to a pick up game, "Have you seen or faced off against Sisters before?" Anyone that has been coming to the club a lot, has an idea (Store manager has an SoB army). Most of the time I have to go over things like faith, and a couple other things. I try not to let anything be a surprise. It does get annoying doing this after a while. I can only imagine how much explanation Grey Knight players have to do.

 

Lord Cornilius, actually the concept of Demon hunters caught on well. Or I should say, Grey knights is what caught on. Problem came about when people realized they might end up with 15 models in a 1000 point list. Unless they wanted to add guard or such. At that point it started to feel less like a Demon Hunter army, and more like a guard army.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Here.

 

One thing to note, our dedicated transports just got re-dedicated. Also our useless wargear is now at least officially useless. Other than that it's pretty thin.

 

Wait a sec.

Who do you mean by "our"? WH or DH?

 

Check the WH FAQ:

WH FAQ (Upper Left)

 

It looks like WH remains free of this reversal.

 

That was not available to me at the time of posting. If you're going to edit a quote, it's polite to mention that when you quote. By 'our' I meant the Inquisition, both WH and DH at the time. Things have obviously changed. Guess it's just the DH who got old rules enforced. No surprises there huh?

[Charred Heretic]

That was not available to me at the time of posting.

Nobody would hold this against you. I am glad that you raised the issue to begin with.

Things are changing at an unprecedented rate, and I personally consider it a huge problem.

I don't have the time for GWs shenanigans.

I hope things will settle out soon.

 

Guess it's just the DH who got old rules enforced. No surprises there huh?

/Agree, not a surprise when considering their outrageously, inconsistently retarded Assault Cannon stats in the 5th ed book.

But to give fair dues, this WH transport "re-un-dedication" (there is no word to describe

GWs idiotic waffling) does effectively re-open the door about half way for DH, if DH GKs

import WH ISTs/Sisters/Inqs and borrow their transports.

IG armies might appreciate the same contribution as well.

 

If you're going to edit a quote, it's polite to mention that when you quote.

I don't know what you mean.

[jakehunter52]

Guess it's just the DH who got old rules enforced. No surprises there huh?

/Agree, not a surprise when considering their outrageously, inconsistently retarded Assault Cannon stats in the 5th ed book.

But to give fair dues, this WH transport "re-un-dedication" (there is no word to describe

GWs idiotic waffling) does effectively re-open the door about half way for DH, if DH GKs

import WH ISTs/Sisters/Inqs and borrow their transports.

IG armies might appreciate the same contribution as well.

 

LOL! :) I can see it know:

"...so these Storm Troopers are going to get out and the Grey Knights are getting in this Rhino..."

"Wait, you can't do that!"

"Oh no sir, this isn't a DH rhino. This is a WH rhino!"

"Ok....so what's the difference."

"Nothing."

Yeah for sidestepping....

[Melissia]

Pulled this from the Witch Hunter FAQ

 

7

Transports

The second print run of the Codex removed

references to a transport vehicle only being

usable by the unit that bought it

 

Does this mean we now override the rededication of transports, or that it was erroneously omitted from the second printing of the Codex?

Since it removed it and the FAQ confirms this, that means that Witch Hunter armies no longer have dedicated transports.

 

 

And I will argue to the death anyone who disagrees

[number6]

The discussion pertaining to DH FAQ quirks has been moved to a new topic: DH "Gotcha" FAQ.