AnthonyVG Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...p;#entry1731165 Over there in that thread is a discussion about Corbulo's ability to grant Furious Charge from with in a vehicle. How do you guys feel in general about area of effects coming out of vehicles, especially ones such as hiding, controlling, and adding attacks to a death company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The rules state that the AoE is measured from the vechicles hull. if it was not to be allowed then why have this rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1731305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 The rules state that the AoE is measured from the vechicles hull. if it was not to be allowed then why have this rule? Where is this rule for Corbulo's AoE, as I would love to show it to people in my area? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1735032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well Corbulo isn't mentioned but.....A ork with a force shield is, any psychic power is ok LOS or not ( shooting Has to have LOS) the fact that units in a transport is "on the Table" all would say that his power would have an effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1735355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Well Corbulo isn't mentioned but.....A ork with a force shield is, any psychic power is ok LOS or not ( shooting Has to have LOS) the fact that units in a transport is "on the Table" all would say that his power would have an effect Most psychic powers are ok (not every single one--ie powers that require LOS, shooting or not, cant be used if the vehicle has no fire points), thanks to the FAQ that came out that amends the rules to allow psychic powers to be used in a transports and how they are used in a transport. It says more than just 'they can be used,' the faq adds rules for how to determine LOS, how to measure range for powers that require LOS and how to measure range for powers that dont require LOS, and when powers must be used from a firepoint and count as using that firepoint for that firing phase, and when they dont. All those exceptions and details are still flat out missing for wargear and abilities, whether intentional or not, and because there are missing rules then in a permisive rules set being played by RAW it cant be done. (As always, friends can and should play the way that they feel is the most fun for both players) Also, Orks with kustom force fields and chaos with icons are 2 examples of wargear that are specificly allowed to be used in a vehicle, and both wargear items also provide rules on how to use said abilities in the vehicle. That is the crux of the problem--there is no blanket rule for if and how to use abilities in vehicles, yet there is specific rules for specific wargear that both allows the wargear to be used in a vehicle and how it is used in the vehicle. So general abilities = no rules to do it, and some specific rules = yes and how. Finally, for the whole unit being 'on the table' thing, right above the (incomplete) measurement rule on page 66 is the section that states 'when a unit embarks on a transport, remove it from the table' (emphasis mine) thus its a slippery slope getting anything definative from GW's rules. I wish they would just include abilities and wargear in their next faq like they did for psychic powers, but until then for RAW tourney play type questions I must defer to the permissive rules set so as to not unfairly favor one persons opinion over anothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1737197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I can't agrue with most of that DevianID ,but I do have a problem with the " remove it from the table " agrument. That is telling you to remove the MODELS not the unit . In fact a bit after that quote they also tell you to leave one model on the transport to show they are there. I feel there is a bit of hold over from 4th on this. In 5th units in a transport are on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1737369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I feel there is a bit of hold over from 4th on this. In 5th units in a transport are on the table I definately agree with you there. In my opinion, of course the models 'are on the table' in the sense that they are not in reserve, despite not being physically on the table. It all comes down to RAW in a tourney setting though, and more importantly what do you do if you run into another player, and you say that in 5th they changed the way it worked compared to 4th thus you can now use this ability in a vehicle to great effect, and he asks you to show him in the rulebook where it says that (a pretty fair question)? It happens to me all the time with chaos icons, but for chaos icons I can point to the chaos codex, and as my other posts say for most other abilities proving you can use the item in a vehicle with a direct rule is not possible. The only other thing I want to mention, you correctly said that you may place a model from that unit on the vehicle to demenstrate that the unit is in that vehicle. However, that model on top can not be shot at, be assaulted, or initiate an assault, can not shoot like he was not in the vehicle (IE if that particular model wants to shoot, you still measure from the fire point and for all intents ignore the fact that he is standing on the vehicle) ect ect. He is just a representation sadly, and I believe they mention some other tokens to represent a unit embarked in a transport, so the model itself is still removed from the table RAW rules wise and follows the (sadly incomplete) rules for models embarked in a vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1738397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Another point in the "on the table " argument . If a unit shoot at and destroys a transport in 5th ed. The unit that shot is allowed to assault the unit that was in the transport. Not all of the different things that can happen to a unit in a transport has been clearly spelled out in all the rules, but the trend is very clear... Units in a transport are "on the table". Tournement settings will always be a problem...lol . any tiny speck of a loophole and you will have someone trying to drive a land Raider though it...heh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1739249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 The rules state that the AoE is measured from the vechicles hull. if it was not to be allowed then why have this rule? Where is this rule for Corbulo's AoE, as I would love to show it to people in my area? Pg 8 of the BA dex. Under Corbulo. Clear as day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1740644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 yes indeed. 0b <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149088-area-of-effects-from-vehicles/#findComment-1745701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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