Pack Leaders

[danielabeaulieu]

Ok, I am prepared to paint my long fang pack leader but have come to a tiny roadblock. Is he the same rank (fluff-wise) as a wolf guard? The reason I ask is that all my WG figures sport a black helmet to offset them from their pack so I'm at odds whether my PL gets the same treatment? Supposedly he has been with the pack long enough to split their fire effectively so wouldn't that alone put him in the ranks?

[WolfLordLars]

No, a Long Fang leader is kinda like the senior member of that pack (much how a PW/PF model probably is for a BC/GH pack). You can add a wolf guard to their pack, but he is not one.

 

Thats just what I take from the traditional sense of the wolves. It could be different with your great company, so if you want to, feel free.

[Guest WG Vrox]

I always pictured him as being above the rank of a WG. In fact I would assume it was very possible that at one time he was a wolf guard and due to age moved on to allow the younger pups a chance at the honored position. Instead his battle experience is used to direct fire at sensitive targets, thus the abiltiy to split fire.

 

WG Vrox

[Vash113]

Personally I see Long Fang Pack Leaders as equal too but seperate from the Wolf Guard. The Wolf Guard are leaders but combat leaders, champions that lead from the frong. A Long Fang by dint of battlefiedl role remains at the rear providing covering fire and blasting from a distance. Not something most wolves seem inclined to do or consider very honorable. While experienced and quite competent a Long Fang Pack Leader wouldn't make a good Wolf Guard, by keeping him seperate the Wolf Guard don't see any intrusion and the Pack Leader can nevertheless be above the rank and file.

[OnlyInDeath]

Personally I see Long Fang Pack Leaders as equal too but seperate from the Wolf Guard. The Wolf Guard are leaders but combat leaders, champions that lead from the frong. A Long Fang by dint of battlefiedl role remains at the rear providing covering fire and blasting from a distance. Not something most wolves seem inclined to do or consider very honorable. While experienced and quite competent a Long Fang Pack Leader wouldn't make a good Wolf Guard, by keeping him seperate the Wolf Guard don't see any intrusion and the Pack Leader can nevertheless be above the rank and file.

 

I dont know if I can agree with the fact that wolves dont find the Long fangs' role as being honorable. In any fluff that I've seen, the LF's are regarded as grizzled vets that can be relied upon to lay down a withering hail of fire and hold the line against any odds. It actually seems like LF's are the wolves that are the best at keeping other wolves alive. Their precision fire has come up many times in the books as keeping packs of GH's and BC's alive by blasting apart strong points. If anything, that seems to me to be the basis of deep respect, especially since the LF's have to rise through the ranks to get to their post.

I would say any long fang would be deserving of respect in the fang, and while they might not be the elite bodyguard of a wolf lord, they definately would be ranked up there. They are a bit too old, perhaps, to be relied upon to have the lightning reflexes that would be required to keep someone from harm, and a bit long in the tooth to be in the thick of the fight, but they would have to be crack shots with both the bolter and heavy weapons to keep their position in the LF's.

[Vash113]

The Long Fangs may be held in great respect and their wisdom treasured but nevertheless the most honorable form of combat for the wolves is in the thick of the melea. Standing back and shooting isn't exactly common. While necessary its not what the focus of the Space Wolves mindset is and thus I wouldn't be surprised if Long Fangs were regarded as rather odd. Wise and crucial but Wolves who eschew the honor of personal combat face to face with the foe?

 

But that's not to say the Long Fangs themselves are held as dishonorable, just that shooting isn't as honorable as hacking and slashing. Hense a sort of seperation between the grizzled Long Fangs and the more head strong youths, even the Wolf Guard.

 

You know like a wise and venerable aunt, uncle, grandparent, whatever that you just have to respect but always find a little odd, a little out of sorts or a little creepy?

[Guest WG Vrox]

ok , someone bust out rank chart. here is how I envisioned the ranking

 

BC to GH

 

while a GH will help with the training of new BCs, drivers of various vehicles, .....

 

those who demonstrate the leadership needed, become WG or PL.

 

Some GH, WG, or PL who feel the need to run on the wild side become WS,

 

I think at any point during the career of a SW the WP and RP will recognize the talent needed to train under their tutelage

 

It is very possible that a LF has fulfilled several of these mentioned positions at one time or another in their career as a SW, however due to injuries or just old age can not keep up with the rest of the pact. They have been there done that and now prefer to man the back lines.

 

After all from their viewpoint it's closer to the ale.

 

WG Vrox

[clanfield]

you join the wolf guard for a feat of exceptional bravery ....so a long fang hasnt been elected in the guard so yes he is a older trusted member of the company but not a wolf guard by dint of his experance however he is leader of the pack hes in over the years riseing to the postion i see wolf pack leaders being accepted by the pack and the lord of the company as part of the alpha male cycle the best of the pack ,but the wolf guard are there purely for there skill and bravery on a heroic scale

,also remember some wolfguards use ranged wepons its not all about melee

[the jeske]

well it kind of a depends but it looks like that . WP are drawn from LF and they are way above WG status . Just like the WG they take part of picking a WL amd great wolf . From a political rank lvl this gives them a lot of power a a group . I would say same in rank as a WG . but I dont think they would use their pack markings not the WG ones .

[muzzyman1981]

Long Fangs as I understand it are some of the most highly ranked Wolves in the packs. They are just as good as any other Wolf, maybe the only reason they are not Wolf Guard is that a feat that may have earned him a position was not noticed by anyone or the feats of heroism he has done were just short of being enough or his Wolf Lord already has many Wolf Guard and thought it would be better to keep him with his pack (probibly gave him some form of reward as well, talisman or whatnot) or he WAS asked but he turned it down due to his nature (likes the way with Scouts), he just doesn't believe what he did was good enough.

 

As for the position being honourable I would also say it is as the Space Wolves would not allow something as big as that be dishonourable. I envision a Long Fang Pack Leader almost covered in rewards and trinkets.

[jedipenguin]

I always imagined Long Fangs occupying the same kind of area as the higher ranking enlisted men in the army (Master Sergeants/Sergeat Majors etc) and the Wolf guard as starting around the lower ranking commissioned officers (Leiutenants etc).

 

I can draw on a line in one of the SW books where Ragnar refers to his highest ranking Long Fang as his 'Master Sergeant' when consulting him regarding teh promotion of Blood Claws to Grey Hunters as at least partial support of the theory, but unless the next SW codex goes into a great deal more detail, the exact nature of Rank within the SW chapter will be left mostly to out own specualtion.

[Long Fang]

I'm typing this at uni so don't shoot me if its a little off :jaw:

 

As per the codex as far as i remeber a Wolf guard pack leader has true grit and access to power weapons etc. If he has access to these kind of 'toys' then he must have earned them.

Now if i remeber my wolves correctly the pack leader won't always be the first in, he may hold back and allow those short in the tooth the chance to prove themselves and hone there skills.

Sitting at the back popping off long range shots may not seem the most honorable thing to some pups but Long Fang's are there to look after the younger wolves to cover there backs and see them safely on to there objectives and into combat. I would imgaine a Long Fang saving you with pin point fire when your in to deep would earn your respect pretty quickly.

 

As for rank well... I had always thought of them as the counter point to the wolf guard. A wolf guard will be sent in to lead the troops, a Long Fang leader serves the same role but at the other end of the engagement range. I also seem them being more level headed than allot fo teh wolf guard, not all of whom will have the years of service and experince a Long Fang will.

 

I see Wolf Guard and Long Fangs both being veterans but with different abilites and specialites. Much like sternguard/vanguard, only Wolfy so clearly superior to both :jaw:

 

/rant over

[danielabeaulieu]

Thanks brothers, I went ahead and gave the wise wolf a black helmet. I can't help but shake the notion of him being well up there in prestige. I know if i was charging into battle I'd respect anyone who could command two good plasma shots right into the mouth of my enemy! Once I muster a camera I'll post some pics.

[Wolf89]

He's usually the first guy I kill off in my 13th co. lists. :P

[Jonny Wolf]

Long Fangs are indeed grizzled veterans and are very much sought out for their wisdom and counsel.

 

If I can draw a line to standard U.S. Army infantry practice. In a rifle platoon, the weapons squad leader (that is the heavy weapons squad) is the senior squad leader and will become the platoon sergeant next...ergo, he's typically not an idiot. As a rifle platoon leader and rifle company commander I would often turn to my weapons squad leaders for counsel.

 

Furthermore, the heavy weapons gunners are not window lickers either. This is the strongest part of the platoon and they are entrusted with the lives of their fellow trooopers....the gunners position is so important that in most battalions, in order to change out gunners it requires battalion commander (lieutenant colonel) approval.

 

So...yeah, bottom line: Long Fangs - very honorable, not a mouth breather.

[WolfLordLars]

I can see Long Fangs being on line in a rank sense with Wolf Guards. While Wolf Guards tend to be more of the gung-ho fighters, Long Fangs are the older and more experienced ones.

 

Since we really dont know how the SW system of rank and advancement works, a Wolf Guard could later become a Long Fang.

[Grimfoe]

The ranking has changed somewhat since the first codex. It used to be as follows:

 

Aspirant to Wolf Scout

 

Scout to Blood Claw

 

Blood Claw to Grey Hunter

 

Grey Hunter to Wolf Guard (if selected due to feats of heroism, etc.) - the wolf guard are specially selected guards to the wolf lord and are second only to the Wolf Lord

 

Grey Hunter to Long Fang (if not selected for the Guard)

 

Grey Hunter to Pack Leader (if not selected for the Guard - remember Grey Hunters used to be included in junior packs as "veteran sergeants")

 

Under this structure, I imagined that Long Fangs would be held in great esteem. They are often more experienced than the Wolf Guard and it makes sense that a Wolf Lord would consult them on matters such as the promotion of Blood Claws to Grey Hunter, etc. Long Fangs would be junior to Wolf Guard in this structure, however.

 

The only real change I see with editions 3-5 is the Wolf Scouts becoming veteran warriors that have left the rank and file. I would think this might be an option for older Grey Hunters rather than the support role of Long Fang. So, I guess I would rank Long Fangs and Wolf Scouts equally.

 

Has anyone asked Dark Bjoern? He seems to be the local authority on matters like this. Or maybe Lord Rags?

[Dark Bjoern]

The ranking has changed somewhat since the first codex. It used to be as follows:

 

Aspirant to Wolf Scout

 

Scout to Blood Claw

 

Blood Claw to Grey Hunter

 

Grey Hunter to Wolf Guard (if selected due to feats of heroism, etc.) - the wolf guard are specially selected guards to the wolf lord and are second only to the Wolf Lord

 

Grey Hunter to Long Fang (if not selected for the Guard)

 

Grey Hunter to Pack Leader (if not selected for the Guard - remember Grey Hunters used to be included in junior packs as "veteran sergeants")

 

Under this structure, I imagined that Long Fangs would be held in great esteem. They are often more experienced than the Wolf Guard and it makes sense that a Wolf Lord would consult them on matters such as the promotion of Blood Claws to Grey Hunter, etc. Long Fangs would be junior to Wolf Guard in this structure, however.

 

The only real change I see with editions 3-5 is the Wolf Scouts becoming veteran warriors that have left the rank and file. I would think this might be an option for older Grey Hunters rather than the support role of Long Fang. So, I guess I would rank Long Fangs and Wolf Scouts equally.

 

Has anyone asked Dark Bjoern? He seems to be the local authority on matters like this. Or maybe Lord Rags?

The rang system works a bit different. The scouts and Guards are a seperate thing.

The order is:

Blood Claw

Grey Hunter

Long Fang

 

WG will be normally elected from the pool of GH. But it also can be that, after an act of great heroism, a BC or LF will be elected. Ragnar Blackmane is such an example.

Scouts on the other hands are Lone Wolfs. Again this could be happen at evers stage in the career of a SW. When a SW shows tendences to stay outside his pack he will become over the time a SW scout. Those Lone Wolfs band together in small packs and operate independed from the rest of the chapter for month or even years. They are more serious then normal SW and they ´don´t make much words.

 

The LF pack leader is nothing else then a LF. He is trained in the heavy weapons of the GC and in this he´s brilliant. The pack leader had shown great skills in tactic and because of that he had changed his heavy weapon to some lighter armament in favor to lead the fire of his pack in the most efficient way. It´s difficult to explain where exactly stands according to a WG, but a wise WL would seek also the advice of his LF pack leaders.

[WolfLordLars]

To be blunt, with ranking, other than knowing Blood Claws are the lowest in rank, and that Wolf Guard/Long Fangs are some of the highest, and Scouts tend to be up there, we really dont know.

 

Everyone has a guess. With the wolves, anything is possible. Ragnar went from Blood Claw to Wolfblade (or Blood Claw to Wolf Guard in the older books). Scouts are picked out whenever they happen to show the notion to be a scout. Long Fangs are older, but other than that, we dont know. Its generally accepted that Assault Bike Packs are what remained of Blood Claw Bike Packs, and that Vehicle Crews are Grey Hunters (possibly those that lost the rest of their pack?).

 

We really just dont know for sure, and with the Space Wolves, it wouldnt matter anyway.

[clanfield]

rank isnt a big issue for the wolves as it is with othere chapters anyhow as i understand it if a pack member has the experiance for a given situation the company follow his lead

obviously not in day to day operations its like the selection process the aspirant faces the whole company and they decide if he joins them or not ,for coolness you cannt beat the sons of russ

[Grey Mage]

Alright, I just had to add this. Anyone look at their codex options?

 

They can take a LANDRAIDER as a transport. *blinks* If that doesnt say "hey we like those guys, they kick ass" I dont know what does.

 

And hey, they can even let other people use it now.