necron

[Vampirious]

I tell ya what necrons are hard, im yet to knock a monolith out. In my typical army i have a Dreadnaught with LC & ML, 1 tactical squad with MM, 1 tactical squad with PC. I can never seem to get close enough with the tactical squads and dreadnaught either doesn't have LOS or it is shot up before he gets a shot off. I know armour 14 is tough to crack. I'm currently working on getting a devestator squad with 4 ML in it (maybe that might help a bit) any more idea's will be welcome

[uberschveinen]

If you're trying to crack the Monolith you're doing it wrong. In this edition they are, to all intents and purposes, indestructible. They are also not important. Focus your fire on killing the Warriors, now there are 15 less of them.

[L0NEW0LF]

the missile launchers are not going to help mate, at best they can glance it.

as has been mentioned your best bet is to ignore it and kill as many warriors (and other units that count towards the phase out number)

if you insist on trying to stop it, lascannons are the only real option you have, at least they get to penetrate on a 5 or 6 :P

if i'm playing against necrons at the start of the game i always ask what their phase out number is, gives me an idea as to what i have to do.

[Kadaeux]

the missile launchers are not going to help mate, at best they can glance it.

as has been mentioned your best bet is to ignore it and kill as many warriors (and other units that count towards the phase out number)

if you insist on trying to stop it, lascannons are the only real option you have, at least they get to penetrate on a 5 or 6 ;)

if i'm playing against necrons at the start of the game i always ask what their phase out number is, gives me an idea as to what i have to do.

 

Or you could count them and work it out yourself :P

 

However it also depends on the size of game you're playing. If its 1500-2000 points (Where fielding two Monoliths becomes a factor) then it would be foolish to ignore them, especially when they can pull squads out of close combat.

 

I'm not saying that getting the Phase Out isn't important but if you leave the Monolith free enough to start dropping Particle Whip shots across you then you're in real trouble. (Actually you're in real trouble if your opponent is merely lucky with dice.)

 

So my target priorities in order.

 

1: Destroyers of any flavour. Move like Jetbikes regenerate like Normal Necrons and a good volley from either will rip through your lines like a Warlord Titan.

2: Warriors. Most 'cron players will field a lot of Warriors. You need to kill them quick, go with the 4 ML Devastator squad and use Kraks on Warrior Squads. Instant Death + Automatically Pierces armour. Try to fire on squads away from Tomb Spyders or Lords with Orbs.

3: Monoliths. As I said, if you ignore them long enough for the 'cron player to decide on firing the particle whip you're in trouble.

4: Lords and Spyders. A competent Necron player will field Lords with Orbs and Tomb Spyders to negate the instant-death = no WBB roll. Take them out and your Missile Launchers and Lascannons can kill warriors without worry of resurrections.

5: Everything else.

 

I really shouldn't be telling you this seeing as I also play Necrons B)

 

 

And Tyranids, Chaos, Orks and Ultramarines :P :P

 

 

EDIT: And for killing monoliths.... you need Lascannons and luck.

[uberschveinen]

A smart Necron player won't use the Particle Whip unless he is winning by a huge margin. The Monolith's true power lies in its teleport with second We'll Be Back.

 

The odds of you killing a Monolith with a Lascannon are one in twenty-six. Destroying one is the only damage roll that does anything useful. You can also kill it with a Multi-Melta at odds of one in fifty-two. You cannot afford to bring that much firepower with you to the table, or else you'll be paying considerably more than the Monolith costs.

 

Do not try to kill the Monolith with Vindicators. It will never survive into range. Any competent Necron player will kill it instantlyif it takes an entire turn of shooting. That two in nine chance of killing the Monolith is far too small for it to be a valid suicide tactic.

 

The only way you can stand a reasonable chance of killing a Monolith is with a Conversion Beamer at long range. A five in thirty-six chance, outside of counterattack range, is the best you have. It is also inadequate.

 

Killing a Monolith always requires grossly disproportionate firepower. If you spend the points to kill it it will have cost less. Your best chance against Necrons is always going to be to Phase them out.

[Kadaeux]

A smart Necron player won't use the Particle Whip unless he is winning by a huge margin. The Monolith's true power lies in its teleport with second We'll Be Back.

 

Depends on the player, like me, if you field 2 or more Monoliths (As I do in 1500-2000 point games) then you use one Monolith for the teleport-WBB role and the Other for its Particle Whip. I have literally killed hundreds of Marines with it.

 

Do not try to kill the Monolith with Vindicators. It will never survive into range. Any competent Necron player will kill it instantlyif it takes an entire turn of shooting. That two in nine chance of killing the Monolith is far too small for it to be a valid suicide tactic.

 

My Necron Heavy Destroyers can attest to this. :P

 

The only way you can stand a reasonable chance of killing a Monolith is with a Conversion Beamer at long range. A five in thirty-six chance, outside of counterattack range, is the best you have. It is also inadequate.

 

Killing a Monolith always requires grossly disproportionate firepower. If you spend the points to kill it it will have cost less. Your best chance against Necrons is always going to be to Phase them out.

 

Yes killing a Monolith requires a hell of a lot of firepower, but ignoring one can leave you with a hell of a lot less firepower. (As Tau can attest to my Two Monoliths appearing in their gun-line. B) )

[Vampirious]

Kadaeux "I really shouldn't be telling you this seeing as I also play Necrons"

 

 

 

nice one, well that was very interesting as i have never played a game with a monilith, me mate has been talking about using it in the next game(which hopefully is on monday), now all i have to do is get the sm codex on the weekend finish the last ML marine and i should be sorted. PRAISE THE EMPEROR

 

 

Now all i need is the emperor's luck in my dice rolls

 

 

cheers everyone

[Nyyman]

How about killing Monoliths with Terminatours with chainfists? Or does it have some rule against close-combaters?

[Kadaeux]

How about killing Monoliths with Terminatours with chainfists? Or does it have some rule against close-combaters?

 

Monolith Living Armour negates ANY AND ALL bonuses or special rules against its armour, eg Chainfists don't get 2D6+S to penetrate, only 1D6+S

 

Your powerfist would still double your strength but anything that affects the penetration roll or armour value is ignored.

 

A more important example, a Multi-melta is no more than a short-ranged Krak Missile to a Monolith.

[uberschveinen]

Not correct. It negates bonuses and modifiers to rolls to defeat its armour. Bonuses and modifiers for determining damage once the armour is defeated still apply. Melta weapon can kill the Monolith if they roll six then six because of AP1.

[Kadaeux]

Not correct. It negates bonuses and modifiers to rolls to defeat its armour. Bonuses and modifiers for determining damage once the armour is defeated still apply. Melta weapon can kill the Monolith if they roll six then six because of AP1.

 

You'll note I specified that attacks that affected its ARMOUR were the ones punished.

 

Living Metal: *Summary* Anything that counts its armour as less is negated, anything with bonus penetration dice is negated *No bonuses for you.*

[uberschveinen]

I stll pointed it out as it is easy to misread that sentence.

 

Now that I'm thinking, what can feasibly kill a Monolith, from any army? I can't think of much offhand with anything better than a 2/9 chance. Is there an s10 ap1 ordnance weapon out there? That'd at least have a 1/3 chance of killing it if it hit automatically. Which is hilarious, that the best possible weapon in the game is usually not going to kill the damned thing.

[Maligoare]

Well... there is the Lance Strike from the Inquisition codices, but the problem there is to get a Monolith in cover. The SM orbital bombardment might work, but it has to contend with full scatter distance.

 

I would still go for a squad of broadsides any day! One railgun may only have a 2/9 chance, but use three of them and your chances suddenly go up (8/9 for one destroyed result, a little more if you want to count one or more destroyed results).

[Mal]

well the 'lith isn't exactly a small model, so set the orbital bombardment on the centre of the green funky crystal thingy and prey.... providing you dont roll too high you still have a decent chance of landing the template 'hole' on the 'lith... outside of this I generally ignore the thing, much the same as a night bringer, its NOT a necron so taking them just makes it easier to phase the tin'eads out.

 

The other key is to stay mobile...

[Kadaeux]

well the 'lith isn't exactly a small model, so set the orbital bombardment on the centre of the green funky crystal thingy and prey.... providing you dont roll too high you still have a decent chance of landing the template 'hole' on the 'lith... outside of this I generally ignore the thing, much the same as a night bringer, its NOT a necron so taking them just makes it easier to phase the tin'eads out.

 

The other key is to stay mobile...

 

Damn, I'd have liked you to have been there for one game I played.

 

4000 points. Me: Necrons, my mate: Blood Angels.

 

He missed EVERY to-hit roll in the game and failed EVERY save.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Get a few dreadnoughts into CC with it.

Otherwise, kill every warrior you can find.

[Maligoare]

In a similar line of thinking to the CC Drednoughts, how about Lysander (or a counts-as)? S10 Thunder Hammer and a bonus to the damage table which the Monolith's living armour does not counteract.

[uberschveinen]

Still less than 1/3 chance, and the Monolith is a skimmer.

[Grindgodgrind]

If you absolutely have to try and knock it down, try immobilizing it in the first turn. If not, concentrate on destroyers/orb lords, then warriors. Necrons can be beaten effectively in assault, so hit 'em hard.

[Nyyman]

The new Master of Forge conversion beamer with S10 AP1 could do a trick. With BS 4 (or was it 5?) it doesn't even scatter so much. If you manage to hit it, you need to roll 4 to do glancing hit, 5+ to penetrate it. With glancing hit you can wreck it (-2 from glancing but +1 from AP1, roll 6 to get -1 to it = Wrecked). With penetrating hit you at least stun it (roll 1 and you get +1 from AP 1 equal to Crew Stunned). Roll 4 to wreck it, 5 or 6 to destroy it.

 

Screw me if I'm wrong, I'm sure this tactic is not perfect.

[sooch]

Crew stunned/shaken don't really matter to the monolith, and neither does weapon destroyed (flux arc -1 shot).

[Kapitan Montag]

Vortex of Doom as also S10 AP1 - but getting your librarian within 12" of the monolith may not be the best in the long run...

[Kadaeux]

Vortex of Doom as also S10 AP1 - but getting your librarian within 12" of the monolith may not be the best in the long run...

 

Getting within 12" is more of a "Kill me free" card for the large Warrior squad it summons to Rapid Gauss fire you.

[minigun762]

I think its clear that IF you really have to kill it you're best bets are

1) Conversion Beam (Loyalists)

2) Defiler with 2 extra DCCW (Traitor)

3) Vindicator

4) 3 LasCannon Predator

[Primarch Naogedd]

I agree; the monolith is a really nasty addition to a 'Crons army. You can't shoot it, because it has way more shooty power (particle whip, destroyers), assaulting it doesn't work very well since the "pull the metal people out of combat" move happens in the movement phase; so the 'Cron player can shoot the (blasphemous, blindfolding) Imperial Creed out of whatever charged the squad.

 

I'd have to say that this seems like one of the few times that Vanguard Veteran squads seem useful. Having 3-or-so minimum-size Vanguard Vet squads (with power weapons if you can free the points) deepstriking and getting stuck in with seperate warrior squads might work.

 

Other than that, maybe combat squadded assault/close-combat-bikes would work.

 

The trick with me for dealing with a monolith is to get as many warrior squads locked up as possible so the pull-out-of-combat move isn't very effective. Stay in combat, and eventually you'll reach your Phase-Out number.