Armor piercing

[Manserus]

On a vehicule it's the strength of the weapon + d6 and a bonus for AP1

 

 

I know that if the strength of the weapon is the double of the toughness it's an automatic wound!

 

But on a marine for exemple which have a 3+ save?

 

Does AP 1 or 2 or 3 changes something?

[nighthawks]

first - weapon S double or more target T is NOT an auto wound - a roll of 1 always fails to wound. this is the basis for "instant death".

 

second - the model is not be allowed a save if the AP of the weapon is less than or equal to the armour save of the model, regardless of the weapon strength vs. model toughness.

 

IF AP≤Sv THEN no save allowed ELSE save roll allowed

 

obviously this isn't how cover and inv. saves work. have you read the shooting section of the rule book?

[Biggsthemedic]

It is always strength of the weapon + d6 with a few exceptions,

 

Melta is +2d6 instead of +d6 at half of the weapons range.

 

Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and take the highest of the two.

 

Rending adds an extra d3 plus the strength and d6 when you roll a six to hit.

 

Powerfists, monstrous creatures, etc. roll 2d6 +strength.

 

Then you have the vehicle damage tables which is always d6 and add in the modifiers below if aplicable

 

If you equal the armor value of a vehicle it is considered glancing which subtracts 2 from the vehicle damage roll.

 

Open topped adds +1 to the damage roll.

 

AP 1 however adds +1 to your roll on the vehicle damage chart to represent the especially penetrating nature of the weapon.

 

AP- subtracts 1 in the same way.

 

So to actually answer you question, AP1 only effects vehicles, it just punches through everything, vs troops it just ignores armor saves.

 

 

So to put it simply, first you are rolling to get through the vehicle's armor rating, then you roll on the damage table to see how much havoc you have wrought.

 

And yes melta weapons are nasty vs vehicle, the downside? you have to get close.

 

hope this clears it up

[Manserus]

Nighthawks: yes i've read the shooting section....but since i'm pretty new to the concept of w40k it,s harder for me to follow everything the book says!

 

Both of your answer clear that up....

 

Thx a lot...

 

So power fist against vehicule....you roll 2d6 and in assault it doubles the strength....is it right?

[Reglor]

Nighthawks: yes i've read the shooting section....but since i'm pretty new to the concept of w40k it,s harder for me to follow everything the book says!

 

Both of your answer clear that up....

 

Thx a lot...

 

So power fist against vehicule....you roll 2d6 and in assault it doubles the strength....is it right?

 

that was a mistake on his part. I think he meant chainfist, not power fist. A power fist is just double strenght + 1d6. A chain fist is double stength + 2d6.

[Manserus]

Alright!

 

Thx a lot!

 

Does that mean that ORKS are hit by mostly everything without armor saves?

[nighthawks]

yeah pretty much. The 6+Sv doesn't go to far.

[Brother Gothard]

Reading this thread I want to stress that powerfists or chainfists or thunderhammers striking against vehicles double their strength, and THEN add +d6 (or +2d6 depending).

 

Something about one of Manserus' post seemed to me that he thought it was +d6 then double.

[Mal]

ok im going to try to sum this thread up in an easy to understand post (please dont shoot me if I score a FAIL).

 

Shooting infantry:

 

When shooting infantry, roll to hit using the rule of 7, in essence start with the number 7 and subtract the shooters Bs value to find out what you need to hit. For example.

 

Bs5 hits on a 2

Bs4 hits on a 3

Bs3 hits on a 4

 

Now you roll to wound, sorry I cant remember any neat tricks to remembering what you need here with the exception of if T ans S are equad, then you need a 4.

 

Now we come to saves.

To ignore someones armour save you need to be shooting with a weapon with AP value equal to or lower that their save, for example.

 

Power armour is 3+ save,

when shooting with a heavy bolter (AP4) power armour gets to make a saving throw

when shooting with a krak missile (AP3) power armour gets no save

when shooting with a plasmagun (AP2) power armour gets no saving throw

 

Shooting against vehicles

 

When shooting vehicles, use the rule of 7 to hit as normal, however instead of wounding you need to see if you penetratem glance or fail to damage its armour.

To work this out we need to know the armour value of the tank your shooting, we'll use a rhino in this example.

A rhino has front armour 11, side armour 11 and rear armour 10.

 

Once you have hit the tank in shooting you take your guns weapon strength and the roll D6 and add the 2 values together, this gives you your shot strength.

Now compare this to the vehicles armour of the side you are shooting.

 

if the shot strength is less than the vehicle armour then the shot does nothing and the tank is unharmed.

if the shot strength is equal to the vehicle armour then you have scored a glancing hit.

if the shot strength is greater than the vehicle armour then you have scored a penetrating hit.

 

Some weapons allow you to roll 2D6, for example a weapon with the melta special rule allows you to roll an additional D6 when working out the shot strength, and a weapon with the lance special counts armour values higher than 12 as 12, also be aware that some vehicles are immune to these special rules, for example the living metal special rule on the monolith means that you can onle ever roll 1D6 to calcualte hit strength, and you can never modify its base armour value.

 

Now we know if we have failed to harm the vehicle, scored a glancing hit or managed to score a penetrating hit on the vehicle.

 

If we failed to harm the vehicle, then we do nothing.

If we caused a glancing hit then we roll on the damage table but subtract 2 from the result.

If we scored a penetrating hit then we roll on the table as normal.

 

Please be aware that there are a couple of modifiers to this result.

 

If hitting with a weapon with an AP value of - then subtract 1 from the result.

If hitting with a weapon with an AP value of 1 then add 1 to the result.

If hitting an open topped vehicle add 1 to the result.

 

Please note this this list is not exclusive and please refere to the individual weapon/vehicle rules for full details.

[Gurth]

Does that mean that ORKS are hit by mostly everything without armor saves?

Yes. The only things normal ork boyz get saves against, are ranged weapons that have an AP of "—" (like lasguns), and against most close combat attacks except those made by power weapons, power fists, etc.

[Master Vandor]

Now you roll to wound, sorry I cant remember any neat tricks to remembering what you need here with the exception of if T ans S are equad, then you need a 4.

 

 

Power armour is 3+ save,

when shooting with a bolt gun (AP4) power armour gets to make a saving throw

when shooting with a plasmagun (AP3) power armour gets no save

when shooting with a meltagun (AP1) power armour gets no saving throw

 

Remember the roll to wound it easy

Str +2 or more T = 2+

Str +1 T = 3+

Str = T = 4+

Str -1 T = 5+

Str -2 = 6+

 

there are several instances though where your str is not good enough to hurt your target but you can refer to the chart for that.

 

also boltguns are AP5 and plasma is AP2 (sorry can't help but correct mistakes B) )

[Mal]

D'oh... and thats what I get when I write something like that without refering to the rules... you would have thought I would have learnt by now! lol, thanks for the corrections. I'll go back and edit the main post....