Isiah Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but given the new rules regarding ICs who are now a lot more exposed to shooting when alone and when with a unit need to push into b2b first, is it still worth risking the 1 wound GK BC as an HQ choice? I ask this because I regularly took a lone BC IC (with psycannon/psychic hood) as an ally in my Deathwing army, but now I'm wondering if I should step up to the Grand Master, or, a GKT Squad with embedded BC. The other option is an Elite Inq in termy armour (so he can Deathwing Assault if needs be) – cheap and with 2 wounds plus access to psychic powers and the DH armoury. Any of you guys have good / bad experiences with the lone BC or Inq? Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 The problems with both the GM and the Inq (more so with his T3) is there extra wounds are moot due to ID. No Eternal Warrior, no Adamantite Mantel (or Cloak the SoB get) makes multie wounds not really worth it. As your GM or Inq in TDA will be targetted by Las/Plas (and a Plasma hit is enough to ID an Inq as well) or other AP2 weaponry, they will usually be IDed. Or hit by Power fists in CC. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdosInquisition Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I find an Inquisitor is remarkably durable, particularly with acolytes and other such retinue members around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 You are better off with an Inquisitor Lord than an Inquisitor because of his Iron Will special rule. Also you can justify haveing 3 acolytes with artificer armour as bullet shields. :D The Grand Master, as well as having 3 wounds, also has BS 5 (I think). An Inquisitor (Lord) would need to take a Sage to get that high. Why don't you attach the Brother-Captain/Grand Master/ Inquisitor (not Lord) to one of your Deathwing squads? A Grand Master with a BS 5 psycannon and psychic powers could be useful in a Shooty Terminator Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 But then he's not Lone. :D Before Killpoints I was an strong advocate os using Elite Inqusitors and adding them to PAGK Sqauds. You gave the Inquisitor T4, Fearless and Pssobily Shrouding (yes again depending on the agreements of your opponents...), and the Squad gained a unit with 2 wounds to soak up S5 or bloew hits, and another Psycannon/Termy Armour/etc. But Kill Points have ruined that, and if Retinues (can't remember) are a seperate Killpoint as well, they just aren't durable enough (toughness 3 really really sucks) to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdosInquisition Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I use an Inquisitor Lord and I can tell you, that guy can take a beating. With two Heavy Bolter Servitors, a Plasma Cannon Servitor, 3 acolytes with 3+ (2+ if its ordo malleus) saving throws and some sages, put the king in some cover and have him blast away, just watch them try and kill the bastard :D Oh, and If its witch hunters, which in this case its not, you get the Chirugeons too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 How big is your army, Isiah? For small games, the lone BC still works out quite well for me, though he's no longer the untargetable sniper. Now I usually stuff him in a GK squad, making it considerably beefier and scarier. You can attach him to a DW squad or a footslogger squad, and he'll be pretty safe yet plenty effective. It's worth noting, when comparing a BC to a GM, that a GM (with or w/o psycannon) costs only 8 pts less than a BC (with same wargear as GM) plus two GKTs in the retinue. That's the same number of wounds, yet twice the melee attacks and thrice the shooting. The DH armoury doesn't have any instakill protection, and the GM's initiative 5 (and T4) is no longer good enough to allow him to go toe-to-toe with most of the game's normal HQs, let alone special characters! Until the DH gets an overhaul, I don't think the GM is worth the cost anymore. Just take a normal squad of elite GKTs or HQ squad led by a BC. They are, rules-wise (thanks to the retinue clarifications of 5th edition and the codex rules themselves), entirely identical. The only difference between them is the Force Org slot they occupy. Once you kit out an Inquisitor for a similar role to a BC psycannon, you've spent a few more point but, overall, have a less appealing model. The BC is considerably more potent in assaults. Yes, he only has one wound, but he's Tougher and therefore harder to instakill. (Remember: no instakill protection at all in the DH armoury!) Regular humans are more easily wounded and offed, termie armour or not. Others here are recommending more or less our standard shooty Inquisitorial retinue build. If you've never tried it, it's very much worth it. I-lord, psycannon, psychic hood! (now the game's best psyker-power protective wargear), 3 gun servitors (0-1 plasma cannon, 2-3 heavy bolter), 2 sages, 1-2 mystics, 0-3 acolytes with bolters. Lots of dakka and special rules for dealing with drop pods and deep-strikers, Iron Will, that psychic hood ... such an excellent unit. However, this doesn't quite sound like what you're looking for, either. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Poor GK got slapped around left and right with fifth edition. I don't use my BC anymore, he's a heckuva point sink to not be untargetable anymore. He's just sitting there looking awesome in my case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auedawen Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 The BC is still quite useful IMO. All you lose is a little bit of versatility (i.e. you can't hide him behind a squad to shoot at a light vehicle while the squad hits some infantry). However, a BC can still keep up with a squad of PAGK and adds a huge punch to them in CC. Still good, just not quite as good as he was before, and he's still the best choice for an HQ up to 1500pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1735880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Army size is 1500 points that with Deathwing means little room for manouvre in the balance with spare points v scoring units. And if you consider that the GM costs at least the same as a base DA Ven Dread it makes him look an expensive proposition. The GKT squad with embedded BC sounds a sensible solution and has the advantage of being taken in small(er) unit sizes. I suppose what I was trying to find out was whether a lone BC was still a viable choice. It would appear that maybe he isn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1736317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I think he is still a good choice for a GK army, since you have to include an HQ. You simply now have to tag him to a squad, which has working out nice for having another power weapon and psycannon in the squad, that doesn't hinder movement. Curiously, does having a TDA model in the unit prevent the whole unit from sweeping advance? Allying him in is not so useful anymore, costing you nearly 4 standard GK that can help take an objective. I think it's lone =][= who got the hammer down more than anything. Without IC protection they simply are not as good as they once were. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1737608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaelion Hexis Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Indeed, I would avoid any lone characters. Save, of course monstrous creatures from other armies. Since our characters still beneft from retinues, unlike the new codices (Eldar, Marines, Chaos), they are the way to go. No pwerfist picking on your Grand Master. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1738528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Curiously, does having a TDA model in the unit prevent the whole unit from sweeping advance? Unfortunatly yes. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149447-the-lone-brother-captain-ic/#findComment-1738671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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