Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I have a bunch of 3rd Ed. Terminators meaning they are on standard infantry bases, not the larger ones used now. 1) I assume they should still count as larger bases re template weapons and hth combat. 2) Should I buy some new larger bases and glue the old smaller ones to the larger ones? Dan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 in 4th edition this was debateable.... but now in 5th edition you can use small bases on termis only if your opponents lets you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 That's not really correct Mal. 5th ed says you must glue it to the base it came with. If it came with it, it is therefore fine by RAW. Taken too literally, this does lead to some oddities when bases are changed part way through production of a model (I already have some SM bikers on new bases for example), as well as being restrictive if you wish to use something like the new biker bases on models that do not come with them. Taken not so literally, and actually using some common sense, it simply means you cannot use odd or outlandish bases without opponent's consent. Your terminators on smaller bases are fine if that's what they came with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Not only did they come with, they have to use the smaller based because as metal models, they need to fit into the slot on the smaller bases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstaff Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Not if you cut that annoying thing off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 The model seems more stable with it on. Then again, if I then glued it to a larger base, it would be more stable too. I've only ever tried trimming the tab with the smaller base (and then only once because I was trying to make the base more interesting) and then, even after I glued weights into the base, it kept falling over everytime someone nudged the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baragash Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Not if you cut that annoying thing off. I leave the tab on under the actual foot then choose a hole in the 40mm base, gives it a snug fit when gluing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Personal preference would be to cut the tab off and attach it to a larger base. You might even be able to leave a bit of the tab on one foot to put through a whole in the larger base, which might make it more secure. 25mm bases are perfectly legal on the older ones but I would still prefer the added stability of the 40mm ones. Just depends on how much work is involved and how well decorated the old one is. Edit: Curses, beaten to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Those are good ideas. Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1735950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 plus its not like it costs much to replace them, 5 bases for £1 is the cheapest I've seen them (just avoid the GW base packs, overcosted tripe) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1737140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 That's not really correct Mal. 5th ed says you must glue it to the base it came with. If it came with it, it is therefore fine by RAW. Taken too literally, this does lead to some oddities when bases are changed part way through production of a model (I already have some SM bikers on new bases for example), as well as being restrictive if you wish to use something like the new biker bases on models that do not come with them. Taken not so literally, and actually using some common sense, it simply means you cannot use odd or outlandish bases without opponent's consent. Your terminators on smaller bases are fine if that's what they came with. yes it does say that, but also remember that when there are multipul options, GW always takes thelatest release as the correrct choice, and the last release of termis came with 40mm bases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1737209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 The thing is, this is not to my knowledge written anywhere (except maybe tournament packs and other relatively official house rules). Going by the core rules, there is no such restriction. To even try and introduce such a restriction would cause untold problems for many players. Is everyone required to change to the new biker bases when they become widely available and/pr are supplied with all new bikes? To take the rules for bases completely literally is unworkable but to allow people to use the bases supplied with older models does fall within that RAW, and is reasonable to boot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1737243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I know this, and you know this, and we BOTH also know that as nice as RAW is it doesn't solve all problems, infact strict adherence to RAW actually causes problems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1737248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 And the point is I am not advocating strict adherence to RAW on this subject. However, no matter how workable RAW is, I do not think citing other people's house rules (including GW's) as being some kind of official stance is going to get us any further either. Besides, RAW is still the default way to play. House rules are only required when RAW is not workable and I really don't think allowing people to use the bases their models came with (that they may have painstakingly decorated) is unworkable. If you want to make house rules (or follow other people's) even when RAW does work, you do that. As long as everyone concerned is having fun that's all that matters. Just don't mistake such things as being remotely official. If GW want to make a hard and fast rule that says you use the latest bases, they should put it in writing for all to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1737289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormcaller3801 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 To the best of my knowledge, there is no innate advantage to having terminators on a 25mm base as opposed to a 40mm one. Because of the way that the assault rules are written, you only need to get one model into base contact, and then all other models in the unit within 2" of the model in base contact in order to engage the enemy model. I just attempted this using a convenient unit of Fire Warriors. Using the Shas'Ui as the 'enemy,' I was able to get the other 11 models within engagement range, and was then able to further get three Stealth Suits within 2" as well- all counting only from one of the three Fire Warriors I was able to get into base contact, and with room left over. To wit, if your opponent complains that your 25mm base is reducing the number of models able to engage, it is highly likely the results of the combat will assuage whatever umbrage he's taken. It could be argued that the 25mm versus 40mm bases matter with regards to template and blast weapons, simply because a 25mm base might allow your model to avoid being caught underneath the template where it would otherwise be hit. However, I would point out that the opposite is true as well: 25mm bases mean that you can get more models under a template than 40mm ones, simply because you can put the models closer together. To that end it striles me as a moot point, offering advantages and disadvantages in equal number. Beyond this I would refer to the Rules Resolution Flowchart on GW's website: the very first step instructs you to read the rules thoroughly again. The rules, as already stated, indicate that you should use the base that the miniature comes with. Ergo, you have your answer, and regardless of any hemming or hawwing, until an errata document comes out, you are playing in accordance with the rules. And of course, there is the most important rule to take into consideration: not GW's Most Important Rule, but the one that says we're all here to have fun. That goes both for enforcing strict adherence to the rules, and for accusing your opponent of being so focused on winning as to use smaller bases to gain some minor advantage. Play however works for you and yours, first and foremost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1738899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekari Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I bought Termies back in July and they came with 25mm AND 40mm bases. So to state that you must use a 40mm base is absurd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I bought Termies back in July and they came with 25mm AND 40mm bases. So to state that you must use a 40mm base is absurd. well the 25mm bases are supposed to be for the beacon, not for the actual terminators, the pictures on the back of the box give that away Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekari Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 But of course you must be right. After all, why wouldn't they include FIVE 25mm bases for one beacon. Get real. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 But of course you must be right. After all, why wouldn't they include FIVE 25mm bases for one beacon. Get real. well with an attitude like that I won't waste my time :lol: and I doubt anyone else will either Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekari Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You're the one who suggested that multiple 25mm bases were included for *one* model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You're the one who suggested that multiple 25mm bases were included for *one* model. :lol: you mean like how GW does http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/King_Tiger_101/99120101027.gif http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/King_Tiger_101/gw_w40_sm_termin_sq.jpg http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/King_Tiger_101/m1252464_99120101027_SMTerminatorsm.jpg http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/King_Tiger_101/m1252499_99120101037_SMCloseComTerm.jpg hmm now what are ALL those terminators mounted on I wonder?....oh and whats that beacon mounted on I wonder? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Oh boy! *pops hisself up some popcorn and yanks up a lawnchair* In other news. What about models that don't come with a base, due to bits sites, GW error, or being made of stuff I grabbed from my bits box? What's RAW got to say about that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekari Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You're welcome to argue until you are as blue in the face as those Ultramarines - it won't make you correct. Why do metal terminator models still come with both 25 and 40? You know, those single-blister packs WITHOUT teleport homers? Why did they include FIVE 25mm bases in the box if it is only allowed under the rules to use those for a teleport homer? Bottom-line here is that you have absolutely no rule to quote that states you must use a 40mm base for a terminator. Without a restriction, you are free to use whichever of the two that you desire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 never mind, I'll go talk to the brick wall although I do find it quite interesting you going on about the 25mm bases, when you mounted yours on a 40mm base http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...p;#entry1732086 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekari Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You assumed that I mounted mine on a 25mm just because I argued about it? I like the area the 40mm bases give me to work with, and I find them more befitting a model as 'imposing' as a Terminator. I argued simply because nobody should be telling someone what the "rules" about basing are when in fact they have no RULE to back them up. In most cases I believe people should play RAW, *rarely* RAI. I will neither allow someone to play RAMU, nor allow them to impose such restrictions on others. RAMU= Rules As Made-Up. In summary, you may think of me what you will. If you feel I'm worth an ignore or dislike simply because I called someone out on making a ruling up then so be it. If you don't like my "get real" comment, so be it. The bottom line is that I AM the kind of gamer who will tell someone they are violating the rules if they are in fact violating them. The moment GW comes out and states Terminators must be mounted on 40mm bases, then be damned sure I'll let my opponents know. Until then however, if there is no written rule about base-size, then my opponent is free to use either of them that came with the model as far as I'm concerned. I use 40, but that's by choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149467-terminator-bases/#findComment-1741396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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