minigun762 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I wanted to toss the ball around regarding Predators and if its ever a good idea to upgrade them with Daemonic Possession (DP). I'll lay out some of my basic thoughts and background information to make it clear where I"m coming from. 1) A Predator's goal is to shoot and shoot often 2) DP allows the Predator to ignore 1/3 of possible damage rolls, allowing it to shoot more often 3) DP reduces the effectiveness of all Predator shooting Question: Is the ability to not be stunned/shaken worth the constant reduction in overall firepower and significant point increase? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstorm Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I would presume the amount of missed shots due to BS3 would balance the effect of ignoring the odd stunned and shaken result, but for 20 points more... ive never actually tried possession on a pread though to be honest as my dice rolls are shocking and i know lowering hits on 3's to 4's would cripple me (and irritate the hell out of me). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1735965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertsjf Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 As long as the weapon system is a) Twin linked or :P allows you to toss alot of dice, you should be good.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1735983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0NEW0LF Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 i regularly use Deamonic possesion on my predators mainly because i know my opponent loads up on AT firepower and they are going to be taking a battering. for those 20 pts it allows me to keep shooting from anything until it's destroyed/wrecked. (ok so i might lose a weapon or 2 but i always take sponsons as i tend to use my preds as static guns once they are in place) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1735986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 If you go possessed, you'd probably do with with twin-linked las and heavy bolters, as with what robertsjf said. Other than that, it's too crippling in my opinion. I've never used it since this edition because of that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 but thats very unpractical . the hvy bolters are wasted on anything the las will shot at [thats one ] a single las twin linked isnt realiable enough as an anti tank weapon. the hvy bolters on the other hand with bs3 and not being twin linked lose on anti horde . Possession doesnt help in anyway against deepstriking/drop poding unit that land on the side [lets say the back is safe from anything other then obel] . Considering all that and the fact that the las pred is overcosted [even without the side sponsons] , I dont see any good set up for possession and a predator tank . Maybe in fluff armies that dont want to run oblits , but then we are not talking about the effective use , but about pluging holes with sub standart units for the sake of a fluff army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Gotta agree with Jeske here, possession is cool, and great for modelling, but has no real tactiical value on a pred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Half the problem is that preds have so little tactical value at all compared to oblits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 the problem is that the codex looks like this lash prince nothing nothing warp prince nothing nothing lords nothing everything else khorn HQ oblits nothing nothing dakka preds defilers nothing nothing everything else zerkers/pms/csm nothing nothing nm nothing nothing everything else termis nothing nothing everything else nothing raptors nothing everything else this is the short guide to power lvl and usabilty of different chaos units in different chaos army builds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstorm Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 So really, what it comes down to is... Oblitz>Defilers> everything? thats what it seems like :unsure:, imo 5th has further gimped Pread's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 the problem is that the codex looks like this lash prince nothing nothing warp prince nothing nothing lords nothing everything else khorn HQ oblits nothing nothing dakka preds defilers nothing nothing everything else zerkers/pms/csm nothing nothing nm nothing nothing everything else termis nothing nothing everything else nothing raptors nothing everything else this is the short guide to power lvl and usabilty of different chaos units in different chaos army builds. Hahaha I know you didn't mean for that to be funny Jeske, but it is. In alot of ways its funny because you are 100% right. I'm not making fun, far from it, its just humorous to see the truth posted like that :unsure: . I'll tell you what, I'm going to post up an army that uses none of those units with the exception of basic Chaos Space Marines and try to make it as competetive as I can for 5th Edition. I'd like you to take a look when you get a chance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1736381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I'd like you to take a look when you get a chance. no problemo it kind of a is my job . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1737037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Medina Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Hi Sorry don't agree with the power list - it should include plague marines. I've used a Predator with T/L Las Cannon and two Lascannon sponsons with Daemonic Possession in most of my games; most of my opponents are Marines with lots of anti tank. It has always performed brilliantly for me. As far as I can see, if you are going to pay the points for the predator, you have to have it shooting as often as possible. Anything that stops you locking onto your primary target and pumping out fire till it is gone, is a waste. Daemonic Possession usually keeps my Pred in the fight and means my opponent will have to keep the baulk of their heavy weapons on it long after they might have stopped. It means I keep firing - for example in a battle against guard I tasked it with the destruction of the enemy Leman Russ followed by his sentinals. It had no other goals (anything else was a bonus). I got lucky and hammered the Russ with a penetrating hit through the frontal armour and rolled a 6. (Nurgle be praised!!) I shrugged off the incoming fire and was able to reposition for shots on the sentinals since he wasn't lucky enough to immobilise/destroy me. I know it is a huge points cost and you can work out better options I'm sure (e.g. three obilits) but I haven't had it let me down so far so I wouldn't swap it for anything. I do find it works best when used aggressively and with careful target prioritisation, not just put on the battlefield with a vague "I'll find something to shoot at" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1740736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Hi Sorry don't agree with the power list - it should include plague marines. I've used a Predator with T/L Las Cannon and two Lascannon sponsons with Daemonic Possession in most of my games; most of my opponents are Marines with lots of anti tank. It has always performed brilliantly for me. As far as I can see, if you are going to pay the points for the predator, you have to have it shooting as often as possible. Anything that stops you locking onto your primary target and pumping out fire till it is gone, is a waste. Daemonic Possession usually keeps my Pred in the fight and means my opponent will have to keep the baulk of their heavy weapons on it long after they might have stopped. It means I keep firing - for example in a battle against guard I tasked it with the destruction of the enemy Leman Russ followed by his sentinals. It had no other goals (anything else was a bonus). I got lucky and hammered the Russ with a penetrating hit through the frontal armour and rolled a 6. (Nurgle be praised!!) I shrugged off the incoming fire and was able to reposition for shots on the sentinals since he wasn't lucky enough to immobilise/destroy me. I know it is a huge points cost and you can work out better options I'm sure (e.g. three obilits) but I haven't had it let me down so far so I wouldn't swap it for anything. I do find it works best when used aggressively and with careful target prioritisation, not just put on the battlefield with a vague "I'll find something to shoot at" He did include PMS, reread the troop area. I would have to agree that preds in general are kind outclassed by alot of other heavy support slots. I would personally rather have a possessed vindi for cheaper than the pred, or two oblits, hell i would take a defiler over a pred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1741052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 the problem is that the codex looks like this lash prince nothing nothing warp prince nothing nothing lords nothing everything else khorn HQ oblits nothing nothing dakka preds defilers nothing nothing everything else zerkers/pms/csm nothing nothing nm nothing nothing everything else termis nothing nothing everything else nothing raptors nothing everything else this is the short guide to power lvl and usabilty of different chaos units in different chaos army builds. Hahaha I know you didn't mean for that to be funny Jeske, but it is. In alot of ways its funny because you are 100% right. I'm not making fun, far from it, its just humorous to see the truth posted like that :P . I'll tell you what, I'm going to post up an army that uses none of those units with the exception of basic Chaos Space Marines and try to make it as competetive as I can for 5th Edition. I'd like you to take a look when you get a chance. I have an army i run from time to time that has pretty much everything that is fairly useless. 3 dreads, 3 csm's, 2 defilers, term lord with a single lightning claw and a combi-melta (thats right i suicide him...)...When i run this at more than 1500 i usually add more useless crap to it, like 9 chaos spawn or some bikers. The odd thing about that list is, i somehow win with it. Im actually 9-2. The dreads perform admirably when they are the only thing on the board. I usually start deployment with everything held in reserve other than them so they eat piles of fire, and for some reason my dreads just dont die. Its not a very good list, but i do get a huge blast out of playing it and it always has some sort of "cinematic" moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1741064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 cinematic ? A cinematic moment is when your Deth Korps siege company led by solar macharius makes the enemy army run [and destroy that what didnt with medusa siege guns ] in the pre battle phase . and the find out that the scenario says get X pts for destroying this and that durning battle . so you both get 0/0 pts for both . first and only draw i ever saw that ended with 0/0 pts . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1741101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
atavist Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I once won an apocalypse game before turn one started by taking the Chaos conclave datasheet and disruptor beaconing 7500 pts worth of deepstriking Deathwing termi's and Blood Angel assault marines so far into useless territory that it would have been turn 5 by the time they slogged back into the game. Only game I've ever seen that was over before it started. On topic- I think DP is a crap upgrade for everything except Chaos vindicators. Dice aren't especialy kind to me, especially when I'm shooting lascannaons, so I'll take any statistical bump in my favor I can get. I usually just set my preds in decent covering terrain and use them as cheep occasional tank busting harassment units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1742264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I dont know but some of you people have a too much gunline mind set up . Who cares about AV14 on the front . When the game has fast moving anti tank [drop pods for both squads and terminators, land raider crusaders with outflank , attack bikes , bright lances , chaos terminators with combi weapons , sw termiators with combi weapons , sw GH drop pod squads etc etc ] . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149470-daemonic-possession-predators/#findComment-1743677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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