Primarchs ain't so great.

[eyescrossed]

Thing is, Calgar was fighting for his life where as Fulgrim won pretty easily un-armed! Calgar's weapons is that of a Primarch, Fulgrim used his fists...

 

As for the Angron thing, if you have read the story in WD of the final battle we can see that Angron was winning easily and only lost because of an anti-daemon attack by the whole of the surviving Grey Knights.

 

And let's not forget that the warp storm surrounding Armagedon was disappating thus weakening all daemons, and although a Primarch Angron is now a daemon...

 

The Primarchs are powerful. Russ leapt out of a sky craper onto a Warlord Titan and destroyed it! The Ork Warboss was the most powerful ever (think bigger than Ghazghull, and he has a 2+ invulnerable save for a turn!) and was fighting toe to toe with the Emperor. Horus was stunned in a plasma blast. That is stunned, not wounded. Saguninnious went 2 rounds with the most powerful Bloodthirster I have ever heard of (have you seen it's FW stats?!) and broke it's back over his knee in the second round!

The bloodthirster Sanguinius fought isn't the forge world one.

The forge world one is Anggrath the Unbound, the one Sanguinius fought was Ka'banda (Spelling?).

 

i reckon that the primarchs wouldve been sick arse fighters but then again it would be hard to put them into rules without insanely overpowering them. games workshop dont do anything realisticall like look at strength 4 bolter the describe it as 85 calibre explosive rounds ill tell u this know 50 calibre rounds punch through tanks and 85 no matter how strong would even stand a chance.

Actually, bolts are .75 calibre rounds.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

but when you wage war on Armagedon without any allied Space Marine Chapter (the Grey Knights arent a publicly known chapter) and defeat Angron's most fierce fighters, THEN you are king of the hill.

Who did that? Logan Grimnar did.

 

So if it's not publicly known that you fought alongside the most powerful Space Marines out there, you were technically fighting Angron singlehandedly?

 

The forge world one is Anggrath the Unbound, the one Sanguinius fought was Ka'banda (Spelling?).

 

And Ka'banda (depending on which fluff you listen to) was the Lord of All Bloodthirsters. Point: Sanguinius.

[Iron Lord]

Ka'bandha art is very, very clearly, in the book, An'ggrath styled (barbs on whip, hyper-extended jaws, shape of his four horns, shape of shoulder plate, all match.

 

That doesn't make it clear if one is a reincarnation of the other or not, but what is clear, is that the artist must have been drawing from the sculpt.

[Oor_Mate_vlad]

but when you wage war on Armagedon without any allied Space Marine Chapter (the Grey Knights arent a publicly known chapter) and defeat Angron's most fierce fighters, THEN you are king of the hill.

Who did that? Logan Grimnar did.

sorry, just had to.

 

wolf lord kieran

 

So, really, what you're saying is that Logan Grimnar went up to the single solitary Grey Knight that was left over from the sheer arse kicking that the Grey Knights, not the Space Pups, gave to Angron and his buddies and said "Please, please, please Mr, I have this killer reputation as a totall badass and don't want it spoiled. Can you guys just pretend that you weren't even here?"

 

And, of course, the whole thing about the Inquisition killing all of Armageddons population is just Space Wolf propaganda because the Space Wolves really killed veryone so that no one finds out that they hid in a corner, rocking back and forth and crying while the Grey Knights did all the hard work.

 

Ergo that lone, surviving Grey Knight is KING OF THE HILL

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

yeah, you might want to read that article again. the Space Wolves held the world eaters at bay (read as "took a while to die") until angron and his retinue of bloodthirsters committed themselves, then the grey knights teleported in to do their job.

 

So, the Wolves rally the Imperial forces, draw up defenses and hold the line of psychotic warp enhanced space marines from killing everything long enough for 100 GK terminators to teleport down and do their thing (which was pretty awesome i admit). Then the grey knights' masters (the big I) come in and tell them to take a hike, and round of the Imperial survivors and send them to work camps. Then Logan tells the Inquisition to go stuff it. And gets away with it. Faces down by Chaos and Imperial forces.

 

Logan Grimnar is KING OF THE HILL.

 

wolf lord kieran

[Aqatone]

Oh here we go again. My Primarch/Chapter Master is better than your Primarch/Legion/Leader/Chapter Master/Coffee Mug.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

So, really, what you're saying is that Logan Grimnar went up to the single solitary Grey Knight that was left over from the sheer arse kicking that the Grey Knights, not the Space Pups, gave to Angron and his buddies and said "Please, please, please Mr, I have this killer reputation as a totall badass and don't want it spoiled. Can you guys just pretend that you weren't even here?"

 

Actually, the Grey Knights wanted to mind-wipe the Space Wolves, barring certain senior officers, because they knew about the Grey Knights. The fact that Logan Grimnar refused to let that happen, plu him having a go at the Inquisition, is one of the major sources of the rift between the Wolves and the Inquisition. The Grey Knights are more than happy for people to think it was just the Wolves.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Oh here we go again. My Primarch/Chapter Master is better than your Primarch/Legion/Leader/Chapter Master/Coffee Mug.

 

Yep. Good old Wolf fans.

[Utsujin]

Primarchs are great, but not gods. I think every primarch could beat another primarch on one of their good days. Ferrus didn't have it soo good when he was killed by Fulgrim, then again he's a robot. Sanguinius is a vampire so he can rise again once the sun goes down. Rogal Dorn is captain hook. Russ is just at the bar still. The lion took a great nap. yadda yadda yadda. Every primarch has their querks and upsides. Ferrus was extremely strong, and stubborn. Stubbornness could be a double edged sword. He is my favorite primarch, not because hes the best, but because of his fluff. He wasn't the most martially sound, but he was a very strong, emo mechanic.

 

Also, if the space pups were that great, they wouldn't have needed the help of the Grey Knights.

[c-wrex]

It's kind of futile to attempt reasoning or arguing with anyone who feels an actual connection to a fictional character.

 

And it must be pointed that as stated in Angels of Darkness, by Gav Thorpe (which I found to be really a lame book), that there was no rebellion before the Primarchs, and that if there were none of them at all, then perhaps there would have been no Heresy.

[Excalibur]

Oh here we go again. My Primarch/Chapter Master is better than your Primarch/Legion/Leader/Chapter Master/Coffee Mug.

 

The answer is always Leman Russ/Logan Grimnar/Ulrik the Slayer.

[Excalibur]

It's kind of futile to attempt reasoning or arguing with anyone who feels an actual connection to a fictional character.

 

And it must be pointed that as stated in Angels of Darkness, by Gav Thorpe (which I found to be really a lame book), that there was no rebellion before the Primarchs, and that if there were none of them at all, then perhaps there would have been no Heresy.

 

That is a cheap intellectual statement by Thorpe. Yes without the Primarchs there would not have been a Hersey, but someone else would have come along and rebelled. Where there is governments there will be rebellions.

[c-wrex]

Really, Excalibur? Consider how long the crusade was waged before the primarchs were around. Each Legion going around, doing their thing, never more than two or three being led by the Emperor at any given time, and yet, for hundreds of years of crusading, there was no rebellion. The mere fact that there were loyalists in the legions under Horus proves how shocking and terrible the treachery was. Given that most of the loyalists were Terrans and served under the Emperor first is further evidence that without the influence of the primarchs, there would have been no rebellion.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Oh here we go again. My Primarch/Chapter Master is better than your Primarch/Legion/Leader/Chapter Master/Coffee Mug.

 

Sanguinius/Blood Angels/Mephiston/Dante/The Red Grail.

 

See, we even have a mug. :unsure:

[c-wrex]

I'd like to pre-empt the space pups fans here and say the Cup of Wulfen.

[Sons of Horus]

wouldn't the best primarchs be the ones that are still alive?

 

of course NOT! none of the primarchs that are alive can do to the emperor what Horus did. Horus was definitely the best.

 

and of course primarchs are great, the fluff talks about them as being demi-gods of war.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I'd like to pre-empt the space pups fans here and say the Cup of Wulfen.

 

thanks buddy, i was going to let it go by but you showed me the error of that decision!

 

wolf lord kieran

[Oor_Mate_vlad]

thanks buddy, i was going to let it go by but you showed me the error of that decision!

 

wolf lord kieran

 

 

we all know that you Space Pups can't let anything go.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

talk about pots calling kettles black...

 

wolf lord kieran

[Oor_Mate_vlad]

I have the monopoly on the Last Word

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

what are you, female? B)

 

wolf lord kieran

[Oor_Mate_vlad]

Nope just amazingly stubborn ;)

[Excalibur]

Really, Excalibur? Consider how long the crusade was waged before the primarchs were around. Each Legion going around, doing their thing, never more than two or three being led by the Emperor at any given time, and yet, for hundreds of years of crusading, there was no rebellion. The mere fact that there were loyalists in the legions under Horus proves how shocking and terrible the treachery was. Given that most of the loyalists were Terrans and served under the Emperor first is further evidence that without the influence of the primarchs, there would have been no rebellion.

 

There were still commanders, the Death Guard did not fall because of their Primarch. If the Primarchs were not there, someone else would have come along. Yes, the Primarchs did make a difference, revolutions follow a charismatic person as their leader who shapes the rebellion but rebellions have underlining factors.

[Rain]

Perturabo is by far the best off, and not just because I am an Iron Warriors player (really, I swear, why don't you believe me?)

 

I mean think about it, Vulkan is dead which sucks, Ferrus Mannus is also dead, as are Sangunius, Horus, and Alpharius. Russ is stuck in the Eye of Terror and I have it on good authority from Nurgle that all the beer there is spoiled Budweiser so he is probably not having a good day. The Khan is in Commoragh being tortured by the Dark Eldar which can't be much fun either.

 

Angron is angry which would be good for him except that the one time he tried doing something about it he got a black eye, ouch. Lorgar is just a pawn, as is Magnus and Magnus got his whole legion turned into walking hourglasses, not good. Oh yeah, Dorn is also dead and now his emo legion cut themselves over it, kind of embarrassing don't you think?

 

Gulliman is Gulliman which is bad enough, but what's more he is poisoned and being kept in an altar sorrounded by Ultramarines, making him the only person who might actually envy the Kahn and his newfound homunculi friends. I suppose Fulgrim is also well off except that he is possessed so who knows if he even gets to properly enjoy the warpspawned debauchery he gets himself into. And Perturabo? Why he gets to sit in a castle (and he's always liked those) and brood over vengeance, connivery, and the deeper meanings of progressive rock. So in short, Perturabo is the best, case closed.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

so a guy who does nothing to avenge his lost honor, broods in a castle and probably cuts himself listening to avenge sevenfold is the best? wow, the emperor chose dorn instead of you, get over it!

 

atleast angron and abaddon sometimes attack the imperium. perturabo sits alone and hates himself and the world. he is the most useless, as atleast the dead primarchs died fighting. living and doing nothing is worse than dying.

 

wolf lord kieran