A new player looking at Chaos Undivided

[Lord Bloodbane]

'Lo all,

 

I'm a very new player to 40k. I've been reading through a handful of the newest edition codices (IG, WH, Daemons, Tyranids and CSM) and I've decided my first army is going to be Chaos Space Marines. Originally, I planned on creating a Black Legion army, but soon realized how common these were. I wish to create an army that stands out a bit more, like a Renegade Chapter or another Traitor Legion. While making a homebrew Chapter would be an interesting challenge, I don't think I'm up for that quite yet. I've boiled down my choices to Word Bearers and Night Lords, I really enjoy the fluff behind them. The only hesitation I have is in keeping them somewhat competitive and strong while keeping true to their "roots."

 

For example, to the best of my knowledge, Night Lords are a very mobile army, not using heavy armour such as Vindis and Predators, with a reduced dependency on Rhinos. And for the Word Bearers, would it be against the so-called unity of the Legion to include Cult squads in my selection, forcing me to stick to non-aligned Marks and Units?

 

Considering all this this, what would be the best choice for a new player?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Askari]

Actually I think cult troops are just as appropriate in word bearers lists as in a black legion list. daemosn are also fluffy.

 

Nightlords do use rhinoes. Predators and havocs in rhinoes are the only heavy support options I see Night lords taking but these two can also be cheap and multipurpose units.

[AkiraCho]

night lords in my mind play essentially like loyalist marines, or as close to it as you can get using a chaos list.

 

then you take that chaos list and make them stealthy/aggressive and there yah go night lords. like they make lots of use of jump packs/bikes and any other form of rapid strike. tanks im sure arent above their pallet either

[Askari]

Chosen are also good because they represent the night lord's stealth attribute.

 

Word bearers should have a lord or sorceror represented as a dark apostle(eviler chaplain).

[Rain]

Niether army should have cult troops as Night Lords detest worship on any sort and the Word Bearers worship Chaos as a pantheon and so follow all of the gods equally. Anyway I don't think that the Night Lords have any aversion toward vehicles, especially ones like rhinos which are probably needed for the rapid strikes that are their forte, however something like a vindicator would probably be too cumbersome for them although predators should be alright.

 

That said, the main issue with playing any non-BL army with the current codex is that you really shouldn't have cult units unless you use counts as and cult units are something of a trademark of Chaos, though you could probably get away with modeling "Close Combat Veterans" and using the Berzerker rules for them as that is what I do with my Iron Warriors, using zerk models with the bunny ears chopped off and the khorne symbols shaved off and replaced by chaos stars.

[Artemis360]

I dunno, I don't see much of a problem with using cult units for Word Bearers. Maybe they worship all the gods as a way of life but take their fighting style from one god in particular or above the rest. I guess plague marines or T-sons wouldnt be very fluffy but I could see noise marine or zerker word bearers and I definitely thinking giving icons besides Chaos Glory is ok...

 

I'd consider doing Night Lords simply because you're going to have a lot of infiltration, bikes, raptors and rhinos and thats what I use anyway.

[chillin]

I dunno, I don't see much of a problem with using cult units for Word Bearers.

 

Then you know nothing about the fluff of the WB's

[Brother Nihm]

Please see this topic for advice on starting a Night Lords army.

And no, Night Lords isn't 100% about fast attack. :P

[Hellios]

Personally I would say Night Lords because they look so cool ;)

[Jarulek]

I dunno, I don't see much of a problem with using cult units for Word Bearers.

 

Then you know nothing about the fluff of the WB's

 

Agreed.

 

Word Bearers can basicly use any of the 3 HQ choices, as long as you keep it real. If you want it to be the most competetive use one with wings and warptime and change the sword into a crozius. I use a lord with undivided daemonweapon or PW + MoT. The Dark Apostles gather a huge following of fanatical cultist, traitors, and daemons. In game-terms you should use possessed, daemonengines (dreads + defiler) and undivided marines. Alas, the rules for possessed and engines are rather crap.

 

For Night Lords you should click on Nihm's link. And I would also recommend Preds with dirge casters.

[Lord Bloodbane]

I ended up reading through the topic Nihm pointed out prior to this, which is really what got me thinking. My main worry is about keeping my army at least somewhat competitive, and from what I've seen, a lot of that is utilizing cult troops. I like the suggestion Rain had about using 'Zerker rules for fluff-adapted units. I'm concerned with how many players would be willing to go along with that, as I'm sure some rather strict players wouldn't want anything to do with having an undivided squad with 'Zerker stats against him.

 

And what you said, Jarulek, I was thinking along those same lines, but Possessed seem like a bit of a point waste IMO. Considering I've no in-game experience, that's with a grain of salt.

 

Thanks for the input, in any case. I'm still giving some thought to it.

[chillin]

Well I have 10+ years of gaming experience and I consider possessed quite expensive for what you get. There or certainly other experienced gamers that disagree with that (I'm surprized Smurfalypse hasn't come on here try try to convert you).

 

To your other concern @ brzrkrs. Speaking as a bit of a fluff nazi, I think brzrkrs in a WB's army is where you would get the most leway. In C:csm 3.5 (where WB got actually rules), furious charge vets were common to almost every WB's army. Brzrks really could just represent WB's CC vets, zelots to their legion & DA & pwr of chaos undivided instead of khorne. Just model them up as the most fanatic of the zelots geared up for hth (no khorne symbols or bunny ears).

That being said don't under estimate the competitivness of the hard as nails and versital undivided csm's. I play BL so I can take any cult troop I want, at +1500 pts I take 1 cult troop at most, everything else is undivided csm's, and they always do well. At 1500- all I take is undivided csm's (as troops)

 

good luck with whatever you chose.

[Rain]

Yeah just remember to cut off the bunny ears and shave off the khorne icons and you're golden, it's what I do and nobody really cares since they are still quite easy to tell apart from my normal marines as the "zerks" still have chains and ammo belts on their armor and and are in more dynamic poses than my rank and file bolter marines.

[Jarulek]

@ OP

 

The Word Bearers are one of the legions that suffered the most under the new dex. They used to rely on daemons for those special tasks. Bloodletters as assault units. Daemonettes as anti-armour etc. And you could use daemons as fast attack choices (I think Screamers are the most evil looking out there, very The Abyss-like :tu:) instead of Raptors and Bikes, which I just cannot see being used all that much in a host.

 

Anywho, about the berserkers. I agree with Rain. Tho I'm pretty much of a fluff-nazi I wouldn't make much a deal of it, unless you get pretentious with ridiculous count-as justifications. Which you don't btw :P If you want zekers because you think they'll give you a tactical advantage, use them. I have just started modelling my new Iron Warriors and I'm going to field a berserkers unit. I was planning on just using undivided marines and give them all a chainsword and bolt pistol and decorate them with lots of throphies and skulls. Pretty easy to recognize if you ask me.

[Lord Bloodbane]

Fair enough. I'm still weighing my choices, but I'm giving a lot of thought to Word Bearers. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions!