Askari Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Ok so for my night lords i always include a lord with daemon weapon and a jet pack. Should I add a Sorceror with warp time since it will be slightly better than a twin claw lord and will be able to cause instant death or a twin claw lord with wings to represent a fallen night lords chaplain that preaches the combat doctrine of Kurze and in game will be less suicidal if slightly weaker lord? Warp time and force weapon makes sorcerors slightly better than the claw lord but most armies are going to have something to counter it 50% of the time which means that half the time I'll be relying on WS5 and a force weapon for the damage. The force weapon is nice since it comes included with the sorc but with so many units (or armies in the case of daemons) getting eternal warrior it might prove to be a disappointment. Of course it will still be better at killing most HQs and multi-wound models like nobs and oblits than the lord an will actually be able to do something that my daemon weapon lord can't. So what's your opinion? Right now I'm leaning towards the sorc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis360 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Unless your sorcerer is tzeentchian you won't be able to use a psychic test to insta-kill and use warptime in the same turn. I take a sorcerer with warptime and he's great but I don't use him for instakill. I put him on a bike so he can just hide out wherever and then when theres a lone squad or something expensive and squishy he rushes in. Its great against toughness 4, no invulnerable save units. You're pretty much guaranteed 4 kills and you're initiative 5 so if you're lucky there'll be no one left standing to hit you back. Lord with claws is all well and good but at the end of the day he can still fluff his rolls to hit and as the law of Murphy dictates, everything that can go wrong, will go wrong. With a sorcerer its a sealed deal and this is coming from someone whos famed for bad luck. And one more thing, I made a custom looking force weapon for mine which doubles as a daemon weapon when I wanna go the other route. Something to think about if you're looking for diversity in your models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1740472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 If you want him for CC i say go with the LC lord. A lord has a higher WS. The sorc has to pass a psyc test to get those rerolls and a psyc hood and some eldar stuff makes it harder/more dangerous to use psy pwrs. A libby or a farseer (or whatever) can do nothinbg to stop a chaos lord from slicing up his troops. I say if you want a psy pwr go with a sorc, but if you want a fighter go with a lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1740547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis360 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 That is true. Anti-psychic stuff can mess you up but its not as common as all that, at least not where I play. Like last game I had I had this funny feeling the other guy was going to take a librarian so I took a lord instead of the sorc but generally I go with the sorc. Its worth the risk and its pretty hard to fail the psychic test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1740590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcanus Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Unless your sorcerer is tzeentchian you won't be able to use a psychic test to insta-kill and use warptime in the same turn Is this true? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1746097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blackbone Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Unless your sorcerer is tzeentchian you won't be able to use a psychic test to insta-kill and use warptime in the same turn Is this true? Yes, only Tzeentch-marked Sorcerers can use two psychic powers per turn. Using force weapon effect counts as using a psychic power. - Blackbone Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1746590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've decided to use the sorceror. I play against orks alot so warp time won't really be needed since I'll be hitting all the multiwound models on 4's or better. That's when the sorceror will shine since it will hit before all of them and cause instant death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1751538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spreader Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've decided to use the sorceror. I play against orks alot so warp time won't really be needed since I'll be hitting all the multiwound models on 4's or better. That's when the sorceror will shine since it will hit before all of them and cause instant death. I'm worried on your reasoning. The models that you are killing outright using the Force Weapon probably have friends that will be instakilling you with Power Klaws. Sorcer Vs. Nobs is not something I would charge headlong into without help. Lord + Blissgiver Vs. Nobs...that might be the best way, but I wouldn't give him much chance of surviving either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1751890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstorm Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I like the tzeentch sorcerer better, take wind of chaos and warp time, drop the plate before you assault and your golden Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1752464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Some quick math-hammering comparing Khornish Lord with Twin Claws, Sorcerer with Warp Time and Undivided Lord with Daemon Weapon (all combos are within 5 points of each other and so can be considered equivalent) and all averages will be done on the charge against MEQs Khornish Chaos Lord with Twin Lightning Claws: 6 attacks total x 0.6667 chance to hit = 4 hits x 0.5 chance to wound (reroll) = 3 wounds = 3 dead MEQs Chaos Sorcerer with Warp Time 5 attacks total x 0.6667 chance to hit (reroll) = 4.44 hits x 0.5 chance to wound (reroll) = 3.33 wounds x 0.916 chance to not fail Psychic Test = 3.05 dead MEQs Undivided Chaos Lord with Daemon Weapon 8 attacks total (average) x 0.6667 = 5.33 hits x 0.6667 chance to wound = 3.56 wounds x 0.833 chance not to roll 1 for Daemon Weapon = 2.96 dead MEQs So basically you're going to average 3 dead MEQ with each of them on the charge. Khorne Lord is the safest, having 0 chance to hurt himself or not attack, however it also means you're forced to Mark yourself Sorcerer is the best (barely) and the cheapest (barely). However Psychic Hoods and such can block your effectivness Undivided Lord is the most dangerous to himself, however he can hurt T8/AV11 where the others can't, and has the potential to do the maximum amount of damage Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1753369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Why'd they have to make daemon princes so much better than lords? It seems as though they want us to take prices instead of lords. If I weren't a staunch lord lover and wasn't afraid of characters roaming around by themselves I'd never take lords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1753872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch Naogedd Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'd actually go for a Nurgle Lord over those. He'll do really well against any kind of Toughness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1754013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 He is a great choice, probably the best all around choice however he's expensive and he's Nurgle marked which may or may not be an issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1754098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 I play undivided armies so i don't use marked lords. I'd rather limit myself tactically than break theme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1755190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfcdogbert Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Id say a lord with pack and LC's out of your two options, however i would think that a lord with an undivided daemon weapon would be better, it makes you more... punchy in CC, and i think less like an ordinary marine. S5 with 5-9 attacks are pretty decent than 4 S4 with rerolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1757261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Of Chaos Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 but then saying that if you can afford it the nurgle daemon weapon statistically is better than the undivided by the time you get the extra attacks that always wound on a 4+ AND being able to reroll them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1759776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfcdogbert Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 May well be true but NL are undivided and so if going for fluff you cant take the nurglesque weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1759805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Personally, I'm going to take the Warp Time Sorcerer. The reason being even if a Psychic Hood or similar power stops me from using Warp Time, I still get my normal attacks with a Power Weapon, which ain't bad. The Daemon Weapon will stop ALL your attacks which really sucks when it happens. Plus you can't find plastic Power Armor Twin Claws. If I went Terminator Armor, I'd probably take the Claws as they look better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1761150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Plus you can't find plastic Power Armor Twin Claws. If I went Terminator Armor, I'd probably take the Claws as they look better. Just wanted to let you know what I did on this last one, you can tell me how much this offends your sensibilties. I painted up a terminator lord w/ lightning claws. I am going to use him as a power armored lord. I could also use him as a terminator armored lord, obviously. Hopefully too many people don't get unhappy about that. If you really wanted to make him look like he had power armor, you could cut/file the arms down a little and they would look just like power armor. You could then use the body / legs of a CSM. The terminator arms can be used with regular sized shoulder pads if you cut/file the shoulders down significantly until they fit inside the smaller shoulder pads. Unfortunately you'd need the $20 lord box, plus you'd have to steal at least 1 marine from the CSM box. Just my take on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1762623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestialSon Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Tzeench sorc is a great buy. The 2 powers is one thing, but the 4+ invulnerable is a good idea too. Plus, dare i say it, for the points you could buy a daemon prince with mark of tzeench, wings and warptime... which is also good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/149843-twin-claw-lord-or-warp-time-sorceror/#findComment-1764116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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