Jump Packs, Anyone?

[Grimfoe]

I've been away from the game for a long time. My army was built for second edition and I have been refitting the troops to be current under the latest rules. As a result, I have been fielding units in many battles that I probably wouldn't field if I had completed the rest of my list. Foremost among these units are my Long Fangs and my Blood Claws with Jump Packs. Under second edition I routinely played with 2 squads of LF's and 1 squad of Blood Claws with Jump Packs. The Long Fangs seem to have a home with some of you and I have seen several posts about people fielding/not fielding Long Fangs.

What about the Blood Claws with Jump Packs? Reading most threads on this forum, it's just kind of accepted that they are too expensive and that you shouldn't field them. If you do use Blood Claws, you should put them on bikes as that is more in keeping with their cost. (my intention has always been to complete a unit of bikers)

I have to say, though. My Blood Claws have been kicking ass in one battle after another. They have been extremely effective in my army. They draw a LOT of fire and don't seem to die. With the new cover rules and some careful positioning, I am always able to preserve the bulk of the unit and can use the powerfists to pop tanks, kill lesser characters, etc. I know the cons to using the Jump Packs. I miss my IC's with Jump Packs from second edition: (I post this pic whenever I can because I'm still bitter these models are now illegal)

But I have to admit, as horribly overpriced as they are, my BC's with their WGPL always make back their points and usually kill 3-4 times their points for me. I'll miss them when I have my bikers, and I'm not 100% sure my bikers will be as effective. Are any of you playing with Jump Packs? Do you find them as effective as I do?

[paranoid hal]

read my topic on the same sumject lol

[Beef]

I have a squad of 15, but they hardly get any use as they were to expensive

[Grimfoe]

read my topic on the same sumject lol

 

dammit, Hal. I did a search and everything. LOL

 

 

Well, that's not quite the same. I'm looking for input from some of the older members (like Beef) to see if anyone still uses these guys. They are seriously overpriced as Beef pointed out, but they are also undeniably effective. In some ways, I'd argue that my 8 claws with Jump Packs can kill more in one game than your 14 Claws in a LRC. And mine cost less if you count the transport.

 

Food for thought.

[paranoid hal]

INTERESTING

 

i might use that as an excuse to have som bad ass flying wolves, ride of the Valkiries style woop woop

[Marek Grimfang]

I larger games yes.

 

They are expensive but they do serve a role.

 

It is a very fast way to get a melta gun into range. Espceially with City Fight scenarios.

 

I also only equip them with power weapons since the extra points for PF's really put those 2x BC's over the limit. And it is painful when the models are killed off and removed.

 

 

Im of the opinion that they are in our book, like Long Fangs, so use them despite the costs.

 

But again, usually in 2000 + point games.

[deedark]

Agree they can be effective but 8 isnt enough at the same cost as 8 bikes I would take the bikes over the jump infantry

 

You're looking at 240pts before you add any special weapons for 8 troops

 

15 BCs 2 x PW, 1 x PF and a Flamer is only 4 pts more than a plain BP and CCW jump pack

 

much better option

 

D.

[Wolf89]

In 4th and 5th edition I haven't touched a jump pack, bikes are the better option for sure, way better survivability, the option to have HQ's join them (wolf priest with HP&B anyone?) and you can even have an HQ with 4 fenrisian wolves as ablative wounds zooming around (no turbo boost, but if you use a storm shield like I do, the turbo isn't needed and 4 ablative wounds is SO much better).

 

A foot sloggin' BC packs serves more purposes than just killing their worth like the jump packs need to... for instace, they can capture objectives and hold it... don't forget that... The jump pack BC's NEED to kill stuff to be worth it, the BC's just need to stand on a piece of land while holding up their finger saying come and get us...

[Spacefrisian]

They might be a usable option in a Droppod list as they could now home in on the Pod (if they have that beacon)

[Wolf89]

They might be a usable option in a Droppod list as they could now home in on the Pod (if they have that beacon)

 

Grey area for sure... deep striking...

[Grey Mage]

They cant charge out of the deepstrike, and deepstriking near cover should only be attempted if theirs a nearby droppod. *shakes head*.

 

I play them at 1500+ battles. they are actually a little better at surviving then my normal bloodclaws. At about 180 points for the five of them theyll usually make their points back against a tank or a monstrous creature ala nids.

 

The main reason I bought them? $$$. Much cheaper then the bikes. The other reason I bought them? 30 points for a bike and you only get one close combat weapon? Thats nothing better then what a vanilla army could field..... at best an extra powerfist.

[saphius]

I also ran a huge squad of BCs with jumpacks in 2nd edition. I haven't used them since third edition though. I've always looked at them like they could be very useful though. Under a good tactician, their speed enables them to choose the fight.

 

I just personally prefer the 15 BCs in a Crusader. Not quite as monouverable (Spelling?) but much tougher and, point for point, much more worth it imo. And I never give bloodclaws bikes because it always seemed that Grey Hunters should be the one's on bikes to me. Usually use those points for attack bikes since fifth started. Not as good in CC at all, but much more effective firepower.

[WolfLordLars]

Just say no to Long Fangs! :P

 

I have a pack of 9 BC JP, as well as a Wolf Guard to run along with them. The last time I fielded them (3 years ago?) they did wonderful, breaking a full unit of SM Bikers and then chasing them off, breaking a librarian on a bike, killing him, then finishing off the bikers. I firmly believe that was a fluke though, because every other game they did next to nothing.

 

If we could take 15? Maybe. But still.. the cost....

[Long Fang]

They have there uses, but i only ever field them in large games. Last time i used them i fielded two full packs with WGPL and used them to plug holes in my lines, that was a 3500 point game and they pasted plenty of nids. Hi-light of the game with them being when they and two ground pounding packs of BC's mauled a carnifex. It was dead before it, or my PF's got to strike

[Beef]

Its true i only use them in large games aswell. Otherwise they are a point sink. Last time i used them was 3 years ago in a 5000 each games, I only used them as i had nothing else left, hell i even used 3 landraiders each with hq and pinped out retinue.

[Grimfoe]

I have found them to be very useful in mid size games. Anything over 1500 points. I have had to field them even in small games as I didn't have other viable options, but I'm targeting a list at 1850 for the GT. In that list I will include either JP or bikes.

 

I challenge those of you that have BC with Jump Packs sitting on your shelves to dust them off and try them out. I think they are exceptional at killing tanks. Under the current rules, I use the bulk of the claws as ablative wounds and try to get my powerfists in contact with as many tanks as possible. I field two fists with the claws and a WGPL with combi-melta and a fist. I try to kill a transport first if at all possible as I can try to pop it with the melta and then kill the troops after they disembark. Otherwise, I just fly around the board from one vehicle to another. I will use the claws to contest a point at the end as well, locking the survivors in combat with the enemy's troop that is trying to hold the unit. (often I rout the unit, c'est la vie)

 

Anyway, the fists are very good with all armor being rear armor in combat. This is true for bikes as well, but the mobility of the packs is superior with their ability to move in and out of cover. Not sure if this is enough of a trade off to compensate for the reduced toughness. It's somthing to consider. I intend to play test the two and figure out which I like better.

[WolfLordLars]

Here is my problem with that challenge:

- Sure, BCJP can kill tanks, but I can take bikes which can do just as well at T5 for the same cost

- Or... I can go with a TLLC/ML Dread which also does just as well killing tanks for less

- They are not troops, thus cant hold objectives

 

If I need points at 2500+, sure. But otherwise, they stay in the foam to keep the Long Fangs company.

[Grimfoe]

But otherwise, they stay in the foam to keep the Long Fangs company.

 

I don't care who you are....that's funny.

 

 

I can't say you're wrong Lars as you raise good points. I will say there are some advantages to using JPs, though. You can use cover in ways you cannot with bikes. This will atleast offset the T5 to some degree. You also have more attacks and are better able to kill infantry with the additional hand weapon. They are slightly more versatile in that regard. I think it's worth a couple of games before you make up your mind. I think most people look at the price and compare it with vanilla marines and stop right there. I think I would have. But being forced to field them has let me know that I actually like using them.

 

 

Course...I may like bikes better once they're done... :(

[Guest WG Vrox]

You could follow your BCJP unit around with a WP on a bike using WBaP. I thought there was a rule saying you can't join a JP unit unless the IC has a JP< but I do see one in 5th nor in the C: SW

 

Maybe you can tie strings from the bike to the bc squad like the WP is keeping track of them that way. Adds a whole different definition to the word kite.

[G. A. K.]

I don't think anyone here is saying that giving a BC a JP doesn't vartly increase their effectiveness, its just a matter of cost. Bike or Pack; I just can't spend those points that way in most games. Especially now in 5th with objectives as Lars said. That said every one of us seems to still have the models in our cases with no plans to refit/repaint them in the future.

I'm proud to say I have atleast one of everything I am allowed in C: SW and most of C: SM. If you ask me that gives me the options others don't: I don't have a list I used to build my army; I have an army I use to build my lists. thats not something a lot of the gamers around can always say, and its those gamers who are hit the hardest, and complain the most, when the rules change.

Remember... Every tool has it's purpose; just because you need a hammer, don't throw away your pry bar.

[deedark]

This whole BCs with jump packs, from reading posts I think it's something we would all love to have and from my point of view

if they were a sensible points cost comparable to vanilla marine assault troops at the very least - I would JUMP at the chance to field them. Get it JUMP.

 

I think BC's with jump packs sounds very wolfie - quicker to the fight and all that.

 

Holding my hands up I dont have any - have the bits to build but need other stuff completed first - one day! maybe tomorrow!!

 

D.

[Grimfoe]

This whole BCs with jump packs, from reading posts I think it's something we would all love to have and from my point of view

if they were a sensible points cost comparable to vanilla marine assault troops at the very least - I would JUMP at the chance to field them. Get it JUMP.

 

I think BC's with jump packs sounds very wolfie - quicker to the fight and all that.

 

Holding my hands up I dont have any - have the bits to build but need other stuff completed first - one day! maybe tomorrow!!

 

D.

 

Yeah, I think that's where we are. If you already have the Jump Packs, fine...might as well try and field them. See what advantages they have over the bikers at the same cost. Weigh the disadvantages, etc. If you have them I encourage you to use them. Just a few times. Put your bikers on the shelf and field these guys instead. Weigh the pros and cons.

 

If you don't already have them, I have to think there are more important things to spend your time and money on. They're just not that different from your bikers.

 

Don't fall into the points trap, though. Yes they are more expensive than vanilla marines. They're better too, though. And the fact that they are legitimately overpriced doesn't diminish their effectiveness on the field. These guys kick ass.

[Wolf89]

I never really looked into it that much, but I would field them for sure if they were just 5 points or less than what they are now... I mean look at Wolf Guard, they get a jump pack (must be careful here) for 40 points (including the model), so if you gave BC's the same cost they'd only be 24 points... I'd roll them for that for sure... but until then, I like what Omar said about keeping the long fangs company (the long fangs at least see the light of day once in a while for 13th co. so the BC's in JP's must be in a DEEP depression right now).