Vassakov Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Today I went to GWUK HQ for the schools League friendlies, and for want of a better phrase got my ass handed to me. 3 Games, 3 Defeats. Plus a fourth defeat at our club. The rules are as follows: 2 Troops No model with more than 2 wounds No 2+ Saves No vehicle with more than 33 Armour (Front+Side+Rear) No Special Characters 500 Points Maximum My List: WGBL - Frost Blade, Combi-Flamer, Runic Charm, Wolf Pelt 6x Grey Hunters - Melta, Fist, Power Weapon Razorback - Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolter 8x Grey Hunters - Melta, Fist, Power Weapon Rhino - Storm Bolter Now, this means we have to drop a good 300 points on our core stuff (Troops + HQ) leaving us very little room for manuvore. No Pods, No Dreads and no Termies handicap our obvious advantages and our low model count being even more prohibitive, I can't find a way to do a decent SW army at this level. Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 there is a thread here detailing nasty 750 pts armies...might want to take a look at that and steal (ahem) borrow a few ideas...modify the lists there. wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 All of them involve 2+saves, Dreads, and vehicles with armor higher then 33. Id say grab a razorback with TLAC's for firesupport..... here, lets try a list. 6 GH- 2xpowerweapon, meltagun, Frags- 138pts. Razorback W/ TLAC- 75pts. 10 GH-9x Bolter, Plasmagun, Powerfist.- 206pts. 2x Attackbikes W/ Hvy Bolters- 80pts. 499pts. Assault Cannons can take out any tank youll see at this level, also good for leveling infantry formations. Razorback gives the assault squad some mobility. Heavybolters can glance tanks... and mow down anything not in powerarmor. Str5 will be nice against even PA guys.... and of course a firesupport unit of GH's for some more ranged support, or those days where your waiting for the orks to come to you!. Since you dont need an HQ for this level I really do say leave them at home- the points are better spent elsewhere to cover your bases and get bodies on the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 The rules seem to me like you need the standard FOC, if that's the case then GM's list isn't viable (no HQ), but simply taking out the bikes and getting a cheap WGBL would fit for sure... If you don't have to use the standard FOC, then for SURE you should be doing what GM posted, I really like it and it's going to run you good against every 500 point list you could think of with the restrictions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Agreed with Wolf89 - Grey Mage's list is superb for this level, but you need to see if they'll let you roll without an HQ. They really should, as the rest of the rules you quoted us are straight-up Combat Patrol/40k in 40mins rules, which had a FOC of 0-1 HQ (as in HQs not required to be taken), 1+ troops. At this point level they really should let you do that, because any type of HQ is just going to eat your points up. Talk to the league organizers, ask if they'll OK that FOC or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 leave out the hq, get a dred instead, lose the razerback for a rhino. your points will make it then. i did this a few years ago and had better succes, in small games it better not to waste points on hq especially when you dont need to take them, if you really have to have a hq then go with a ven dred Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 leave out the hq, get a dred instead, lose the razerback for a rhino. your points will make it then. i did this a few years ago and had better succes, in small games it better not to waste points on hq especially when you dont need to take them, if you really have to have a hq then go with a ven dred Can't take a dread, dread armor adds up to 34 and the limit is 33. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Unfortunately for us 1 HQ is mandatory because of our rules - for all others it is optional. Grey Mage, that Army List may well be worth a look, but there is no HQ - which I have been told I have to take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I didnt think theyd enforce the 750 rule in a combat patrol style game.... sorry. You said two troops *spreads hands*. In that case.... Yeah, the only thing I can think to to is drop the bikes for a WGBL. I hate to see them go though, it adds alot of mobility to this list. Might just want to scrap it and start over then.... hmm. Id have to get back to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Vassakov What beat you and how - might give us a better idea what could work better in the future Have to admit a 500pts I'd go 8 x GH melta and PW and 10 x BCs PW and Fist - HQ WGBL BP and FB + charm with a whirlwind or couple of LS with bolters D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Have to admit a 500pts I'd go 8 x GH melta and PW and 10 x BCs PW and Fist - HQ WGBL BP and FB + charm with a whirlwind or couple of LS with bolters D. You might be able to fit in the whirlwind, but the LS's are out of the question for sure... but at 500 points, a whirly's scatter is terrible, you'll be missing most of the time since the army is smaller and spread out differently than in a normal 1500+ game. :) Not sure why they'd be enforcing the mandatory HQ... this isn't a standard FOC and standard mission for that matter... why in other smaller games (combat patrol came up) you don't take HQ's? I'd ask about this Vas, and hopefully they'll see it our way and you can use GM's list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1743878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. A. K. Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think every army MUST have an HQ, no one sends the troops out without a link to the chain of command. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1744011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flintlocklaser Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think every army MUST have an HQ, no one sends the troops out without a link to the chain of command. According to the OP, in this league that's not the case: Unfortunately for us 1 HQ is mandatory because of our rules - for all others it is optional. The thing is, that making HQs optional at 400 or 500 points makes sense, since Combat Patrol/40k in 40mins is supposed to be two patrolling elements bumping into each other unexepcted. Every single picket or wide recon team won't have someone from company-level command present. But the organizers of this league have seen fit to require them for Space Wolves and no one else, which is unfair game-wise and makes no sense story-wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1744437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes they do, its called a communications uplink. Most scouting missions *wich is about all 500 point is* would have a WGPL at best.... maybe a group of wolf scouts in the area instead. I can see where theyre coming from in that we HAVE to have an HQ for every 750.... but in most combat patrol scenarious you only get one troops choice as a minimum, wich allows us too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1744457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firenze Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Im in vassakovs club. I used the Dark Angels and used a chappy in the force. I got 3 wins and a loss. Considering the amount of vannila marines, id use lots of PW and plasma. It shreds the enemy, even against necrons. I had 17 wounds and a rhino in total. It just shows, dont over equip. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1744605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Ok... thats helpful, so now we know were facing mostly power armor. Thank you. WGBL- Plasmacannon, Stormshield- 105pts. 6 Grey Hunters- 2xPowerweapon, Flamer- 128pts. Razorback- LC+TLPG-75pts. 10 Grey Hunters- 9xBolters, Plasmagun- 191pts 499pts. Meh... while I dont like this list as much as the first one it is decent at killing marines. The WGBL has a nice solid 36" range... if you have a long fang model this might be a good time to use it.... and his scatter isnt so bad. Fire support squad with plasmagun- Advance to cover, fire to thin out numbers. Razorback advances popping tanks or mowing infantry. CC squad pops out and assaults asap! Heres a different take though: WGBL- Frost blade, Stormshield, RC, Frags, Meltabombs, Bike- 141pts. 6 Grey Hunters- 2xPlasmapistol, 3xBolter, 1x Plasmagun- 137pts. Razorback W/ Stormbolter-50pts. 6 Grey Hunters- 2x Powerweapon, Meltagun- 132pts. Razorback-40pts. 500pts. If you want to showcase our strongpoints I might suggest this list. Advance with everything, if they have an obvious heavyweaponsquad consider turboboosting your HQ into them so they dont pop your razorbacks. Popsmoke first turn. The first squad should disembark after a 12" move and rapidfire on anyone who advanced, or if no one on the opposing side advanced then keep them in there, advance six inches and disembark- then rapidfire and hit them with your vehicular weapons. The second squad just goes up as quickly as possible and disembarks to help the WGBL in CC, or move into another squad. Downside.... low on bodies. I know... and I dont like it but I wont put bloodclaws into such a small battle as I always find them dead. At this level its hard to squeeze in much in the way of long range firepower... so fast and close range seems to be the way to go. If you think the WGBL is to expensive you might try to sub a Wolf Priest instead... With a bike he only comes to 130 pts.... but he wont do as well in CC IMHO. If you come up with another list please post it up here... Id really like to see what others come up with. Edit... now that I think about it, if Firenze's DA army is anything to go by thats a squad, a half squad, an HQ and a transport.... as opposed to just over a full squad, HQ, and 2 transports. I think that second list might be more stable then I thought. Playtesting shall see.... hrmm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1744884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 if they were using "patrol" rules from 4th ed then a space wolf army NOT need to have the require 1 hq per 750 points. we did some thing like this back home we i just played guard and a guy was having a hard time making a list and called GW and they said that we don't. if it is some new mission, made up by the store, then i guess it would depend on what they store says. i don't think it is right, because if you go by what every ones codex says, then every one would need one hq. i really hope that they see their mistake and don't keep stuff like that up, i feel it would just keep pissing us off. *edit*: here's a list: WGBL: ML, SS, RC 6x GH: 5x bolter, 1 PG frags 6x GH: 5x bolters, 1 PG 10x BC: 2x PW no armor, not so much in stopping marines (don't have "many" smurfs out up here), the WGBL can hurt soft and hard targets alike, and the GHs back up the assulting BC (hopefully shooting at them so the GH can blast 'em). not the best but more models. i tried to come up with something like it just with a WP then i remembered no 4+ inv. saves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1744890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 GM's 2nd list is the victor in my eyes... but if the tables are altered (which I'd assume for 500 points it would be) then Ullr's list MIGHT be better... both still very nasty looking however, nice job guys. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1745298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Unfortunately for us 1 HQ is mandatory because of our rules - for all others it is optional. Grey Mage, that Army List may well be worth a look, but there is no HQ - which I have been told I have to take. Just out of curiosity- and Black Templar players? Are they taking an Emperors Champion? Tau guys taking a commander? Those are also "Required" Hq's RAW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150043-schools-league/#findComment-1745325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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