Obliged to charge multiple units?

[boreas]

Hi! During a game last night this situation happened:

 

 

............B.B.B

.............B.B

XXXXX.A.B.XXXXX

 

 

..........C.C.C.C...

..........C.C.C.C

 

 

Unit A: Greater Daemon

Unit B: Khorne Bezerkers

Unit C: Tyranid Warriors

 

 

 

If unit C tries to charge unit B, I move the closest model (bold C ) to the nearest enemy model (bold B ). Now, my opponent considered the bullet points of the first column of page 34 (regarding moving assaulting models):

 

-The most important one is that each model must end its assault move in coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.

 

-If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model.

 

-If there are no such models in reach, the model must move into base contact with an enemy model that is already in base contact with an assaulting model.

 

-If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it must try to move within 2" of one of its own unit’s models that is already in base contact with an enemy.

 

The underline any is my emphasis. My opponent argued that nowhere did it mention that it was an enemy model from the same unit. So, following this reasoning line, "A" is an enemy model within reach that is not in base contact and another "C" can reach that model so it cannot just try to move within 2" of one of its own unit's model that is already in base contact.

 

I noted to him that it say on the first paragraph of "Moving assaulting models":

 

"This means that assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

 

And, that I wasn't assaulting the unit "A", only "B", so couldn't move in base contact. He counter-argued that bullet point 2 (see above) obliged me to assault unit "A". Quite frankly, we aren't sure about this, but are organizing a friendly games day next week and would like to have your professional opinion! I'm pretty sure I didn't have to assault both units, both this "any enemy model" might just be a case of badly written RAW that forces me to assault both.

 

Thanks!

 

Phil

[Stormcaller3801]

I'd suggest that next time you both keep reading further on the page- the section on assaulting multiple enemy units repeatedly uses 'can' rather than 'must,' which to me suggests that it's up to you so long as you meet the criteria laid down in that section: once the closest model making the assault is in contact with the closest model in the declared assault target, you either

 

A) Keep all of the remainder of the assaulting unit at least 1" away from other enemy units in assault range,

 

or

 

B) Declare remaining models in the unit are assaulting other enemy units in assault range, and then move them appropriately.

 

You are not obligated to engage the Greater Daemon until you declare you're taking the option to assault it.

[Shiodome]

I've never come across this situation, but it's interesting. I think in this case your opponent was right as far as RAW goes.

 

The rule you make your case with ("This means that assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."), is dealt with in the 'Assaulting multiple enemy units' paragraph. In which is says "... the remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units".

 

This is different to saying they 'may' assault other enemy units, which would be permissive (i.e giving you permission to do so, if you choose.). 'Can assault...' means it is now possible within the rules so long as other restrictions are observed ('can' meaning 'to be able to...'). So now that 'A' is a valid unengaged enemy model; once all of your models able to engage are in base contact with unit 'b', any spare unengaged models that can move into base contact with 'A' must do so.

 

Now this has been raised i don't particularly like it, and i'm not sure it's what GW intended. :(

[boreas]

Yep, we did keep reading and came to Shiodome's conclusion. I should have added this to my first post... I read the "can" as "may assault a second unit if I want". He read it as "may assault a second unit IF I met all previous criterias. In that second way to see it, I HAD to assault unit "A" as a criteria of my primary assault...

 

I still think I didn't have to assault "A" by RAI, but by RAW? I need more input still!

 

Phil

 

ps BTW, my opponent is a WFB players and his judgement is influence (according to him!) by the fact that in WFB you hav to assault a second unit if you clip it when assaulting the first (I haven't player WFB in years, so not 100% on the rules). To him, this is the way, in WH40k, to parallel that rule...

[Stormcaller3801]

Well let's look at it again.

 

Paragraph 1 of Moving Assault Models specifically references not moving models into base contact with enemy models from units you are not assaulting. That establishes that it must be possible to do so- otherwise why would you have to forbid it?

 

Paragraph 2 references moving around enemy units you are not assaulting- although this only refers to the first model you move.

 

Under the Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units section, it talks about how you can (as in 'it is possible') assault enemy units other than the one you declared against, so long as you maintain coherency in the unit and the first model engages the enemy unit you declared against.

 

Now, if you were required to do this, what would be the point of the sentence in paragraph 1? There would be no point in forbidding you from moving into base contact with a unit you're not assaulting if you are required to assault any enemy model within reach. Paragraph 1 is specifically referring to the entire assaulting unit- which means that the requirements to assault multiple enemy units must have been met at that point for this situation to arise.

 

If you can move into base contact with an enemy unit you are not assaulting, during an assault, then by definition you must have the ability to not assault that enemy unit. Ergo, 'any enemy model' in the bullet points must refer to the enemy unit you initially declared the assault against.

 

Nothing else remains logically consistent with the entirety of the text.

[nighthawks]

I'm with Stormy. (may I call you stormy?)

 

it is logical that a bungled set of units may happen, and its possible you may only want to assault one of them. and you may, as stormy so eloquently described.

 

BUT - there is the fog of war concept that, while not a rule in any way, would make it logical in real life that if you were running at a mob of the enemy, you wouldn't discriminate one unit from the other, and charge them both.

 

that's a fluff explanation, and in no way intended as an argument for or against the "can/may/must" argument. just me saying that I wouldn't be surprised either way if GW were to come down on one side or the other.

[Stormcaller3801]

I'm with Stormy. (may I call you stormy?)

 

Why not? Everyone else does.

[Mal]

you do not under any circumstance HAVE to assult a unit you do not want to unless you have a special rule that says you must (head strong for example).

 

You can move the closest model to engage the zerkz, but providing you are more than 1" away from the deamon there is no requirement to assult it, move as many models around the lead zerk and bring the rest up behind them, and you will be validly engaged with the zerks unit ONLY.

[Brother Gothard]

Gotta agree with Stormcaller, nighthawks, and Mal. I see what your opponent is doing there, and its wrong. The most important rule within this debate is that you must keep 1" away from enemy models that are from units you are not assaulting. This is the prime-rule, if you will, under which the rest of assault takes place. You declare your charges, and move your models. If you did not declare against the Greater Daemon, then you are not charging it. Thus you must stay 1" away from it. Notice, when you're not charging, you MUST stay 1" away, whereas the other rules make us of CAN or MAY (as in, you MAY charge any units within range, including multiple unit targets).

[Legatus]

You may even move assaulting models within 1" of the greater demon. The 1" limitation is only for the movement phase. When assaulting , you may move witin 1" of enemy models, but you may not move through them or contact enemy models you are not assaulting.

 

 

Page 33, "Assault Phase Summary":

Move Assaulting units

- Pick a unit.

- Declare which enemy unit it is going to assault.

 

Page 34, "Move Assaulting Units":

Assaulting units must now move into close combat with the unit they have declared an assault against.

 

Page 34, "Moving Assaulting Models":

assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting.

 

All of that indicates that you declare a target unit and move into contact with that unit, being forbidden to contact enemy models you are not assaulting. Unfortunately, the next passages are written far too general, and are not that specific:

 

Page 34, "Moving Assaulting Models":

Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible with as many of their models as possible

- If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model.

If you follow this sequence you will end up with all the models in the assaulting unit in unit coherency, having engaged as many enemy models as possible with as many assaulting models as possible.

 

However, I think it is safe to assume that the earlier text, specifying that you move into contact with your desired target unit, is not completely redundant, and when "moving into contact" is further elaborated it is still supposed to describe your models moving into contact with enemy models you declared as the target of your assault.

 

Also, as the rules for assaulting multiple enemy units explain, you "can" decide to assault enemy units other than the one you declared as your target if you find them to be within range as well. But ths is optional.