Which is scarier?

[Lord Cornilius]

My GKT have been extremely happy lately jumping out of their brand new Land Raider Crusader and generally smashing things to a pulp. I typically run a B/C and 4 of his mates and so far they pretty much make a mess of anything they charge. However, I just finished a spiffy conversion of Stern and my new model looks way too good to be a simple Brother Captain. So I was thinking of ways to incorporate a GM without breaking the points bank, but I'm not sure of it's effectiveness. Here's my breakdown;

 

1. B/C, 4 mates, and psycannon = 270

 

2. GM, 3 mates = 283

 

So, I don't want this unit to be any more points than it already is, so my question is what's the better value. Let's compare, I'm going to assume I'm charging (since if I'm not charging out of my Land Raider than I've already made a huge mistake and it really won't matter what they do anyways)

 

#1 = 8 S4 S/B shots, 3 S6 Psycannon, 16 I4, S6, Power Weapon attacks (ouch, when you write it out it seems more painful)

 

#2 = 8 S4 S/B shots, 5 I5 force weapon and 9 I4 Power Weapon attacks (That would hurt too)

 

So ultimately we loose the 3 psycannon shots and basically 2 power weapon attacks, but we gain the all important I5 and a character munching force weapon. Not including Instant Death, which shouldn't be a huge deal due to the Retinue rule, the GM squad has 6 wounds as opposed to the 5 wound B/C squad. Against a MEQ, I think the GM unit would be quite better as his I5 would eat through at least 3-4 marines before they strike.

 

So after all that I'm still unsure. Opinions?

[Harmi]

I would take those extra wounds, because GM is able to take few random hits and might save fellow or two. Unit with BC looses a mate for every unsaved wound. In 5th edition allocating wounds this way is not as sure it was in 4th, but worth of trying.

 

How about incinerator instead of psycannon as you want them to be close anyway. I think that psycannon is bit wasted in transport and melee. Incinerator has few advantages when compared to psycannon.

 

My choice would be a basic land raider, a frag granade for BC (or GM) and psycannon or two so the unit would be suitable for different roles.

[benmothershaw]

I use:

GM - Hammerhand

5 GKT - Incinerator

400pts

OR in your case

GM - Hammerhand

3 GKT - Incinerator

308pts

 

 

GM is great at killing Independant characters. Hammerhand is high priority, very effective against walkers striking at iniative 5. Although yet to use it, I understand in previous games how it could of stopped disaster.

Incinerator - Great against Howling Bansheees and the like.

 

Imo more CC attacks + Incinerator are best assaulting outside the LRC.

Edit: I don't think models in terminator armor can get frag grenades.

[ThePurifier]

I'd definitely take the incinerator. My Termie armed with one has done more damage game in and game out than any other single model/vehicle in the army.

[Lord Cornilius]

OK,

 

I definetly agree that the incinerator is a better assault weapon, especially in 5th, I just need to find one. However, that really wasn't where the original question was going.

 

The question was whether the GM +3 is more effective than B/C +4.

[tksolway]

Definatley more effective. I always like using a GM, simple because the BC is just another termie, the GM munches things. He is definatley worth the extra 80 points. I used to consider him expensive, but look at the stuff he can kill. the new SM codex Characters are all about 200 points the GM kills most of them hands down. Their Chapter Master is only 45 points less than our GM, and that's without any sort of weapon upgrades, a general Chapter Master loadout is about the same point value of our GM, and they don't get Termie Armour (generally) , or a Force Weapon. I've been seeing a lot of armies with unique characters now, most that cost about 200 points, Having a 145 point guy who can one shot them is simply devastating.

[Mal]

Well we need something cheaper than normal marine armies!! lol, even if it is a one shot wonder

[benmothershaw]

The only problem a GM has is, yes he will slay the independant character, but at iniative 5 the independant character (without any iniative busting weapons) usually kills a few before he goes down.

Which is why you may want to take the hit first, then send a Thunderhammer back, it'll be cheaper.

Ideally you need more than 3 GKT as a retinue, it just won't be enough to keep the GM shining.

Imo you need to re-think a 5 wounded terminator squad, they usually get hit back hard after the first assault they make.

I would say BC/4GKT incinerator is better at lower wound count... they will hit at a unit hard (i.e. enough NFW attacks) so it won't hit back.

[Thaelion Hexis]

The only problem a GM has is, yes he will slay the independant character, but at iniative 5 the independant character (without any iniative busting weapons) usually kills a few before he goes down.

Which is why you may want to take the hit first, then send a Thunderhammer back, it'll be cheaper.

 

Well, since the GM already comes with a S6 force weapon, that character is most likely dead anyway. if you want to throw in a thunder hammer to finish the job, lest the force weapon fails, or to help slow those big nasties in subsequent phases, it's viable. Against a high Initiative character, the rest of the squad igoing last anyway, increasing the models Strength to 8 is a good way to go. I would only include one in such a small squad, as striking at Initiative with high strength is what puts us above standard Terminators.

 

In responce to the OP, I would go for the GM. If you lose a wound and allocate it to the GM, you still have a squad at full strength. A squad of single wound models will lose a body and two attacks. The addition of more attacks at a higher Initiative, a force weapon to boot, is just too good. You want a HQ that can go toe to toe with other leaders. The GM fills that criteria.