Legal wound allocation?

[ShinyRhino]

As a result of some wound allocation debate at our local shop, I was wondering if my wound allocation process is legal.

 

For this example, I have a unit of 5 Terminators. Four are standard powerfist/stormbolter armed, and one is a sergeant with power weapon and stormbolter. We'll letter the standard Terminators A-D, and the Sergeant shall be S.

 

This unit takes seven wounds from bolter fire. I assign one wound to each model, then wrap the two extras onto C and D.

 

I then roll the lone wound for S. Saved.

I then roll EACH DIE for EACH standard man (A-D) separately. A passes, B passes, C fails one of his two saves and dies. D fails both his saves and dies. I remove C and D. The game continues.

 

Is this legal? Or am I required to roll all 6 dice for the standard Terminators at once? I feel like my method is legal, as I've simply reduced the wound rolls to even smaller groups of individual Marines.

 

This method has its drawbacks and its advantages. For example, let's say these guys are contesting an objective, and only A is within contesting range. I'm going to assign the wounds as lined out above, to minimize the chance that A is killed. If I roll all 6 dice at once, there's the chance I fail 4 of the six and am forced to remove A from contesting range. But, if A makes his save, he's fine.

 

The real twist in the situation is when D fails both of his assigned saves. I gain an advantage in only removing one model who failed two saves. But I can also suffer bythis method if A is the ONLY one who fails his save, and all the others survive. If I'd rolled all 6 as a group, and one save was failed, I certainly wouldn't have removed A. I'd have removed someone who wasn't the lynchpin of the unit contesting the objective.

 

I don't have my rulebook here in front of me, so I cannot look at the exact wording til I get home from work. So, I throw it to you to play with.

Have fun!

[JamesI]

As A-D are identical, you would roll all 6 saves as one group.

[ShinyRhino]

As A-D are identical, you would roll all 6 saves as one group.

 

/nod. But is this a "must" or a "can" situation? Curse me for not having my rulebook on hand to resolve my curiosity.

[JamesI]

must.

[Mal]

It can appear unclear at first if the wounds can be rolled individually for each model (as per the grey box on p.19 of the BBB), but on p.25 of theBBB under 'Taking Saving Throws' it clearly states that all models who have the same equipment/stats make their saves at teh same time, so that above example with a total of 3 failed saves... thats 3 dead models.

[ShinyRhino]

Ah, ok. Thanks for the page number references, Mal. I shall revise my saving throw roll method to be legal.

 

Edit: Now, what would happen if I used separately colored dice to show which dice apply to which model, than roll them all "at the same time?"

 

Not trying to get around the rule, just making sure I have ammo to argue with. I'm not the only one who runs thismethod, and others may attempt to use that method to combat the proper way.

[Mal]

it would make no difference, all models with the same stats/equipment are pooled into one dice roll and the number of fails is the number of wounds.... you will need different dice if you want to add in saves to different models or from different weapons, but it wouldn't change the rules...

[HunterB]

Interesting topic guys,

 

I thought from the initial ready through that it was done the way discussed at the top of the page. A further look though and I agree that all models the same roll their saves at the same time. Equally well though the saves do not roll over into other models looking at the book.

 

So say with the same Termie squad if say you suffered 8 wounds from fire then you would say assign 2 to A,B and C and one each to D and S, you make all the rolls for A-D at once, 7 in total but if you fail 5 of them you still only loose A-D, S is unaffected by the roll over and has his own saves to make.

 

Is that a good interpretation??

[JamesI]

Interesting topic guys,

 

I thought from the initial ready through that it was done the way discussed at the top of the page. A further look though and I agree that all models the same roll their saves at the same time. Equally well though the saves do not roll over into other models looking at the book.

 

So say with the same Termie squad if say you suffered 8 wounds from fire then you would say assign 2 to A,B and C and one each to D and S, you make all the rolls for A-D at once, 7 in total but if you fail 5 of them you still only loose A-D, S is unaffected by the roll over and has his own saves to make.

 

Is that a good interpretation??

Yep. Saves can never carry over from group. A-D being identical are a group. S, having apower sword rather than a power fist, is his own group. Wounds assigned to A-D can never affect S, and wounds assigned to S can't affect A-D.

[Mal]

Bingo!

 

Exactly right, it changes a little once you start throwing out units with multipul wounds, but not by too much.... you just need to allocate wounds as normal, but you need to remove whole models, you can't spread wounds across the squad to avoid taking models off....

[ShinyRhino]

Good point, Mal. My method is doubly illegal when you get into multi-wound models. Bad me! Bad!

[Mal]

meh, dont be hard on yourself.... nobody gets every rule right every time.... there are too many to remember, espically around the release of a new set...

 

heck I was speaking to one of my mates about this very thing (not this rule, but rules in general, although I have gotten this one wrong in the past myself), but neither of us could remember a game we have ever played where there wasn't something we forgot, or got wrong, its human nature.... its also one of the reasons to have a board like this one.

[SeattleDV8]

It gets more interesting if your example was a 5 man tac squad. 4 bolters and a sgt. say you take 5 flamer shots and 2 plasma. if you put the one flamer on the sgt and the other 4 flamers & 2 plasma on the squad . 2 of the squad die (ap2) and the two left have to take the 4 flamer saves. sgt has his one save. pretty good chance of just the sgt. afterwards. Now if you put the 2 plasma on the sgt. and the 5 flamers on the squad. the Sgt. dies and the squad takes 5 normal saves. Tough on special models but can keep a unit around a bit longer.

[Brother Gothard]

Does this mean that if I suffer 8 wounds on a squad of 7 marines + sergeant, I roll 7 blue dice and one yellow dice (blue marines, yellow sergeant). If ONLY the yellow dice fails a save, my Sergeant must die?

[JamesI]

yes.

[nighthawks]

yes - assuming you have 7 identical "in gaming terms" marines (same loadout) and a sgt.