rodgambit Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Ok. I'm a BA player who has decided to change things up a bit and I've always been a big fan of the Wolves so I'm making a 13th company army. Currently I have 3 sets of marines from AoBR. I realize that the termies and Dreads won't be of much use in this army but it should give me a good basis for Grey Slayers. I also have some old SW sprues from a buddy with wolf tails, heads, chest pieces, etc.. I was planning on buying a box of chaos to mix with the SW stuff to make a unit or two of Storm Claws. I was also trying to get some chaos backpacks off Ebay to go on the AoBR models since they are harder to customize. I have 4 ml's and a model I can use for Long Fangs as well. I've read about 15 pages on 13th company after doing a search but I could still use some guidance from an experienced player. At the moment I won't be running any wulfen due to the price of the models but I would like to get some fen wolves. 1) What models does GW sell that would work well for the fen wolves? 2) What weapon/armour options do you suggest for the 3 HQ's? I'm not a big fan of bikes, but I do have a box of CC termies with 4 TH's and 1 set of claws. 3) Models in TDA get the scout move in 5th ed. correct? Drawback is that you can't sweeping advance? 4) For the Rune Priest I was thinking Frost Blade/SS/Chooser of the Slain. Is that a good combo and should he be in TDA? 5) Do the pack leaders choose from the wolf guard column or the "other" column? I think it's wolf guard but just want clarification before I build the models. 6) In the 13th Co. models like pack leaders with the mark are still part of the unit correct? They are joined to their squad correct? 7) On the profile it shows that Storm Claws have 2 attacks. Does that include that they already are equipped with bp/ccw or does that bump them up to base 3 attacks? Same with Grey slayers do they have base 3 attacks with true grit bolters and ccw? 8) Does the 13th co. mark of the wulfen cost (20/30 pts) count towards the 100 pts. of wargear that a character can take from the armoury? I'm really looking forward to building this army and thanks ahead of time for any help or suggestions :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 1) What models does GW sell that would work well for the fen wolves? 2) What weapon/armour options do you suggest for the 3 HQ's? I'm not a big fan of bikes, but I do have a box of CC termies with 4 TH's and 1 set of claws. 3) Models in TDA get the scout move in 5th ed. correct? Drawback is that you can't sweeping advance? 4) For the Rune Priest I was thinking Frost Blade/SS/Chooser of the Slain. Is that a good combo and should he be in TDA? 5) Do the pack leaders choose from the wolf guard column or the "other" column? I think it's wolf guard but just want clarification before I build the models. 6) In the 13th Co. models like pack leaders with the mark are still part of the unit correct? They are joined to their squad correct? 7) On the profile it shows that Storm Claws have 2 attacks. Does that include that they already are equipped with bp/ccw or does that bump them up to base 3 attacks? Same with Grey slayers do they have base 3 attacks with true grit bolters and ccw? 8) Does the 13th co. mark of the wulfen cost (20/30 pts) count towards the 100 pts. of wargear that a character can take from the armoury? 1: GW's Goblin Wolf riders, click here (US) I use these guys, they work perfectly and I have 45 of them... not sure if you can still do this, but I special ordered JUST the wolves and it saved me about 10-15$ per 10 wolves... a really good deal if you can still do it, of course I bought 45 of them. ;) 2: For 13th company I almost NEVER run TDA... mainly because it slows down an army that NEEDS to be fast, and they don't have transports... what helps is scouts movement... and if you have TDA you don't get scouts... so yea, I'd stick away from TDA for now. I usually give my Wolf lord a frost axe and bolt pistol, give him a retinue (key word here is retinue) of storm claws as his ablative wounds so an invulnerable isn't really needed... if you feel like you MUST have one then give him a belt of russ. As for my Rune Priest I usually give him a combi-weapon (always fun to gate him somewhere to nuke something last minute) or the trusty storm shield frost axe/power weapon/force weapon, combo, depends on what you're facing. Oh also give this guy chooser of the slain... TRUST ME. As for the Wolf priest, I almost never alter what he's got, you have a solid base for 95 points with all you need, normally frags and such but I keep him under 100 points for sure and he gets the job done... once you do wulfen you might want to invest in healing potions and balms, but not needed right now. 3: I'm about 99.99% sure you can't scout with TDA since C:EoT says so... but there's no FAQ on them so not sure... it's also late and I'm trying to get info to you asap, if I find out later I will be sure to correct myself 4: It's a really good combo, one I usually run for him, but TDA is useless, it makes him and whoever he's with slow (if you can't scout) and he's already got a 3+ invulnerable to shooting and close combat... giving him 2+ armor save isn't worth making him that slow... plus then you can't give him frags, you can't sweeping advance, all that good stuff... 5: They choose from the wolf guard column, they are wolf guard, not wolf guard battle leaders. 6: Yes they are apart of the unit, and confer the hitting on 3's, get hit on 3's rule to the whole squad (including IC's attached), and also ignore morale and pinning tests for the whole squad. 7: This is their base, with bp/ccw that's 3 attacks, 4 on the charge and counter, as for grey slayers, they're 2 base, then 3 on counter and 3 on charge, but then their bolter/ccw counts at 2 CCW's so they'll be at 3 attacks from then on still. Think of it as grey hunters with +1 attack on their profile like they had terminator honors or something (note they can't take wargear options like termi honors, I was just merely saying somewhat like termi honors). 8: I'd have to double check this, but I'm about 99.99% sure of this as well... it should count towards the 100 points, but no codex on hand, and I'm tired and it's late... -_- Hope I helped you out in some way, feel free to PM me if I can help in anything else... Welcome to the fang. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 im pretty sure motw doesnt give the entire squad the ability to hit on 3s. thats like buying frag grenads only for a sgt and assuming that the entire squad has them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Wow I had no idea about the retinue rule. That really does change things and makes the Lord really good. What would you recommend with the storm claw retinue? I was thinking 2 pw's so that'd give 6 attacks/8 charge or counter-charge. Upgrade one model and give him a fist, pelt and motw and then do the lord with a frost blade, pelt, frags, bp, motw. Think it works out to like 408 pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 im pretty sure motw doesnt give the entire squad the ability to hit on 3s. thats like buying frag grenads only for a sgt and assuming that the entire squad has them. The mark works differently for 13th. It says in the EoT book that the unit hits and is hit on 3+ in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 im pretty sure motw doesnt give the entire squad the ability to hit on 3s. thats like buying frag grenads only for a sgt and assuming that the entire squad has them. The mark works differently for 13th. It says in the EoT book that the unit hits and is hit on 3+ in close combat. That should be raid as the guy who has that mark. It does makes the squad fearless and thats it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 im pretty sure motw doesnt give the entire squad the ability to hit on 3s. thats like buying frag grenads only for a sgt and assuming that the entire squad has them. The mark works differently for 13th. It says in the EoT book that the unit hits and is hit on 3+ in close combat. That should be raid as the guy who has that mark. It does makes the squad fearless and thats it. Is there an FAQ that states that because the EoT book is pretty clear in it's wording that the unit passes any morale checks, will never fall back, never be pinned and will always hit and be hit on a roll of 3+. Before that sentence it specifcally states that the bearer of the mark gains the +D3 attacks. It would seem to me that if they intended the hitting on 3+ rule to be just on the bearer of the mark then they would have mentioned it at the same time as the D3 attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 The hitting and being hit on threes is after the passing morale tests, it applies to the whole unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 im pretty sure motw doesnt give the entire squad the ability to hit on 3s. thats like buying frag grenads only for a sgt and assuming that the entire squad has them. The ENTIRE SQUAD (including IC's attached) benefit from "automatically passing any Morale checks, AND will never fall back or become pinned, AND will always hit and be hit on a roll of 3+ in close combat." It's really straight forward, it's one complete sentence giving the whole unit these bonuses, the only one they don't get is D3 extra attacks, that is solely reserved for the model you give MotW to. Trust me on this, I've used this since the book first came out and NEVER had problems at any tournament, large or small, and those who read it see how it's worded perfectly, there's no reading in between the lines here at all. ;) Also it doesn't make the squad fearless... it's better than fearless, they pass all morale and pinning tests, otherwise in combat they might have to take extra armor saves if they loose combat if they were fearless, this gives more flexibility. ;) There isn't an FAQ out for them as of now, everything you need to play them is in C:SM, C:SW, C:EoT, 5th ed. rulebook, have fun. ^_^ And again, any questions you have PM me or something. Also check out the army list sections to see how some of our 13th co. lists look so you can get an idea of where to start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Is a long fang pack, 10 Wolves, 20 wulfen and a Lord a good start for one of their armies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Is a long fang pack, 10 Wolves, 20 wulfen and a Lord a good start for one of their armies? If you're going feral 13th co. (that's the all wulfen list) then it's not a bad start at all... I always ran 45 wulfen, 45 fenrisian wolves, my 3 HQ's and then with leftover points filled up with las cannon long fangs and went to town. ^_^ If you want a great BASE for 13th co. then it's gotta be a few squads of grey slayers and fenrisian wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1747567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 I bought a chaos box today and started putting together some models. I have enough mixed parts to create 2 packs of storm claws. I figured one would be the bodyguard for my lord and the other just an extra elites choice. Do you think I should bother making the second a storm claw pack or just make another grey slayers as troops are more important in the new edition? However, I do have 3 sets of marines from AoBR to make into grey slayers but they don't look quite as good since they aren't as customizable. Talking to a red shirt today he made a good point that he could argue that the scout rule for the 13th isn't the USR scout from the rulebook and since codex's take precedence then you'd just have to use the rule as is in the codex so you wouldn't be able to outflank the entire army. I also don't think that chooser of the slain should grant a rune priest an extra attack if he also has a SS because the SS entry specifically says that if you have one you won't ever benefit from an extra attack. Just some thoughts, what do you all think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1748080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I think your red shirt's a fool, as the faqs show that armies that share a special rule that is supported in the rule book (such as scouts, counter-attack and mixed armor), you ignore the codex and go with the rule book. rules that are NOT supported in the rule book (such as blood fued, true grit) we use as written in our codex. your red shirt is simply trying to fix a "problem" as conviently for himself as possible. on what to build: i would stick to grey slayers, as they are an awesome choice in 4th ed, and in 5th ed only much much better. wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1748165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I agree, the outflanking is for the scouts rule. As for the CotS with SS there was a debate about this, I believe they came to the conclusion that you don't get the extra attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1748661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 I don't have an extra storm shield but I do have the assault squad box shield. Would that be acceptable to "counts as" a stormshield since the rune priest would be modeled with a shield even if its not perfect? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1748892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Space wolf wargear is often a little different than anyone elses in its appearance.... Id say go for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1748902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 make an old viking shield out of a normal marine base Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150331-suggestions-with-building-13th-company/#findComment-1752350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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