Tybrus Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Ok Now I don't have my book with me however, I was playing the other night and the ORK player I was playing aganist was trying to fire his 4 big shooters when his wagon moved. Now As far as I know the rules say that str 5+ weapons are no longer defensive weapons. I don't care if your open top, fast whatever. A wagon is not Fast and even open toped should only be able to fire 1 if it moves. Did I miss something or was this just another stupid fight with someone who can't read the rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Move and fire 1 Str 5+. He fails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1751086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Unless he has a mob inside with three big shootas, if that's even possible. Then he could fire four at you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1751244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
retlaw83 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A battlewagon can hold up to twenty boyz, and twenty boyz can take two big shootas. The orks with the big shootas, and any boy with a slugga and a dream, can fire from the battlewagon if it's not an 'ard case, because it's an open-topped vehicle. If it is 'ard cased, it's not open-topped. In the old codex, the orkses could buy up to four bolt-on big shootas, which were fired by passengers and thus were not effected by the vehicle moving and firing rules and could even be fired at a separate target than what the vehicle was firing at. The latest iteration of the battlewagon cannot take bolt-on big shootas; I know this because I had to tear the troop carrying platforms with big shootas mounted on the railings off of my battlewagon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1751296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I refere you to p.102 of the latest ork codex, it clearly states that a battle wagon CAN have upto 4 big shootas at 5 points a pop, however it can only fire one on the move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1751445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
retlaw83 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I refere you to p.102 of the latest ork codex, it clearly states that a battle wagon CAN have upto 4 big shootas at 5 points a pop, however it can only fire one on the move. The new battlewagon is fundamentally flawed. If you take those big shootas, there's no reason not to upgrade them to rokkit launchas. And if you're taking it that far, there's no reason not to slap a zzap gun and/or kill kannon on that bad boy because you want to be shootier. Then you realize that you're stuck with a hyper-expensive tank that tears like paper if hit from the sides and it can't transport infantry if it wants to lay down the dakka. And laying down dakka is why you spent so many extra points. Anyway, moving and firing the four bolt-ons last codex was perfectly acceptable. I used to take those and three big shootas in the mob riding in it - land speeder squadrons loved being hit by it. Either your opponent is referencing rules from the old book just because he doesn't think they can be different (we've been having a lot of this with the switch to 5th ed in my gaming club recently, and I'm just as guilty as my friends), or he's actively trying to cheat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1751471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrus Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 I talked to him again and got more thoughts on this. his responce was.. "A big Shoota is an assault weapon, and the rules state under assault weapons that they can be fired reguardless of movement" I have checked the assault section and he is right. However the Vehicle rules talk about defensive weapons being str 4 ect. However I find no notes on Not being able to fire them, and under the RAW rules, he seems to be correct. Assault weapons are listed as being able to fire reguardless of movement.. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1753260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 No, just no, it doesn't matter if they are assault, you can't shoot it on the move, if he tries it again, switch to the BA ruleset, take 3 baals with HF sponsons, and say "I can fire these on the move 'cos they're assault". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1753272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Ok Now I don't have my book with me however, I was playing the other night and the ORK player I was playing aganist was trying to fire his 4 big shooters when his wagon moved. Now As far as I know the rules say that str 5+ weapons are no longer defensive weapons. I don't care if your open top, fast whatever. A wagon is not Fast and even open toped should only be able to fire 1 if it moves. Did I miss something or was this just another stupid fight with someone who can't read the rules? You are correct, I myself am an Ork player (secondary army, SM's are my first!) and I can state that only the main weapon or anything stronger than 5+ can shoot, 5+ Weapons I believe are no longer defensive weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1753325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think he missed the memo where the BRB has the infantry weapon classifications seperate from the vehicle weapon classifications. Perhaps he feels his battlewagon is in fact some sort of mega-nob with transport capacity and an armor value? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1753461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Perhaps he feels his battlewagon is in fact some sort of mega-nob with transport capacity and an armor value? Heh Heh Heh, Nice one! LOL ROFL! ^_^ <_< :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1753686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I can see his confusion, if an Ork on foot running around can fire a Big Shooter with no problems, why can't a vehicle (a stable platform compared to running around) fire more than 1? unfortunately the rules say no, but we all know they were written by 2yr olds, so what can yah do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1754315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The reason the "stable platform" of a vehicle can't fire on the move, is because the driver is busy... you know, driving. Like you said, a vehicle is a stable platform, so it would be able to fire a lascannon or a battlecannon just as easy as shoota. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1754319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Um, sidetrackage has occured. To sum it up, OP: Big Shootas are ST5 ST 5 weapons are main weapons, not defensive weapons, per the new rulebook Per the new rulebook, a non-fast vehicle moving up to 6" can fire 1 main weapon and all defensive weapons As such, he cannot move and fire all of the big shootas that are on the battlewagon. He can, however, shoot any of the big-shootas that the squad has inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1756497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 The reason the "stable platform" of a vehicle can't fire on the move, is because the driver is busy... you know, driving. so what are the gunners doing :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1756633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 so what are the gunners doing :) Holding on for dear life (not a very orky thing I know, but you have to keep game balance). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/150632-ork-battle-wagon-rules-check/#findComment-1756638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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