vs. Orks & Nids

[Shiodome]

Make sure you're not inadvertently cheating with your tech marines' 'bolster defenses'. you can only reinforce a ruin inside your own deployment zone, so it's often no use for infiltrating scouts etc. people overlook this a lot I've noticed.

[Jackelope King]

Thanks for that. I had no idea. However, this time at least, the ruin was indeed within my deployment zone (at least 75% of it was).

[Brother_Dan'l]

I think GW already FAQ'd the Demolisher Cannon misprint. It is not a Barrage Weapon. It never has been and never will be. But it's still a damned fine way of bagging large numbers.

[Jackelope King]

We wound up playing it that way last night, and while they weren't terribly effective. Whenever I use those or whirlwinds, the orks tend to scatter, and I'm lucky to get three orks under the template. And one way or another they usually wind up getting cover (since they're not barrage weapons). The only upside is that when Vindicators are on the table, the ork player goes out of his way to try to kill them ASAP, and changes his entire movement to go after them (which you really don't get with Whirlwinds).

 

Tonight, I had more success deploying Vulcan with an army with a flamer-packing tactical squad and an assault squad with two flamers (the game was a firesweep in Cities of Death... Orks and Nids vs. Daemons and Marines). Between good positioning and alternating squads to counter ork trukk boyz' charge (falling back when half of the tactical squad combat squad got wiped out, regrouping with "And They Shall Know No Fear"), and then slogging back up the orks, nailing them with flamers from all angles, and then charging back in to wipe them out, it was pretty deadly. Twin-linked flamers kill orks en masse. This approach let me wipe out a squad of 30 slugga boyz, and two squads of 12 trukk boyz.

 

Vulcan also turned my assault terminators with thunderhammers into a terror. They had no problem dropping the hive tyrant, and were working on a mob of lootaz before the game ended. Attack bikes with heavy bolters (even just two of them) did a number on Genestealers and Spinegaunts, dropping several of each every single turn.

[firefire]

I am shocked that no one even mentioned the predator distructor, especially because they went down in points in the new codex. for 85 points you get a predator with two heavy bolter sponsons (thats 8 shots, 10 if you add a storm bolter,) did I say it's only 85 points! :D in my white scars list I am going to be running one of these with either a whirlwind or thunderfire cannon. that'll show them orks.

[Shiodome]

8 shots, 6 hits (if being generous), 5 wounds (if being generous), 1 passed cover save (if being generous)... so 4 dead orks if you stay stationary, and are lucky. doesn't really have any effect on an ork mob at all. predators are great against high value fragile infantry (eldar), but against hordes it makes no real impact at all, and should be ignored by most ork armies.

[Jackelope King]

Yeah, I'm not really fond of dakka preds in 5e so far. I swore by Annihilator preds in 3e, festooned with lascannons, back when I played Blood Angels and risked my entire army running forward every turn with the Black Rage, and needed a stable heavy weapons platform. I think pound for pound, a twin-link heavy bolter on a Razorback is more cost effective than a good ol' fashioned dakka predator.

[popper]

Im finding it very hard to defeat a horde ork army.

 

Playing a campaign at my local club, my 1910 point SM army went against a 1450 point ork army.

 

my list was:

 

#1) Chaplain: 140 ( jumppack + combiflamer + digital weapons)

 

#2) dreadnought: 125 (2x TL autocannons)

#3) dreadnought: 125 (ML+plasmacannon)

 

#4) Tac squad: 220 (10 men (flamer + LAS) + Razorback transport

#5) Tac squad: 220 (10 men (flamer + LAS) + Razorback transport

 

#6) Assault squad: 225 (10 men (2x flamer, sgt med PW)

#7) Land speeder squadron: 120 (2 (2x extra heavy bolters)

 

#8) predator: 85 (HB sponsons+autocannon)

#9) predator: 130 (HB sponsons+TL lascannon)

#10) Devestator: 170 (5men, 2x ML + 2x PC)

 

(seperate unit for campaign reasons)

#1) Chapter master: 153 (artificer armor, combi-plasma, hellfire rounds)

#2) sternguard: 145 (5 men (2x combi-flamer, 2x combi-plasma)

#3) Razorback: 50 (TL heavy bolter + stormbolter)

 

The ork army was:

 

2x 30 slugga boys

1x 30 shoota boys

1x 30 slugga boy retinue

1x warboss

1x big mek

1x deffcopta

1x 20 kommandos

 

game result: orks win (10VP vs. 3VP, 1330 points destroyed versus 950)

 

I killed 100 models, he killed 26 marines and 5 vehicles.

 

He simply has so many models that no matter what you do, he WILL get into CC and he WILL destroy anything he gets a hold of.

[Jackelope King]

The trick that I'm fast learning to taking down orks is to use their Waaagh! against them. Combat squads are your friend. What you need to do is set up "screens" of combat squads, forcing the orks to "waste" their charge whenever possible on small squads while keeping harder-hitting squads safely behind the screen, then counter-charge with more dangerous units (especially ones packing flamers who can lead off with a line of dead orks). Use combat tactics to your advantage so that you can always pull your guys out at the end of his assault phase (if anyone is left) and open up his mobs to being shot at again. Then you counter-charge on your assault phase, and you're hitting orks who have been denied their Furious Charge.

 

The other trick is to play the denied flank, force him to spread out, and then rush just one of his flanks with your entire force. If three mobs are rushing you, you break one of them over your knee before you even concern yourself with the others. The only exception to this is tar-pitting with your friendly neighborhood dreadnought. If at all possible, drop-podding one of your two dreads in his backfield on turn one can tie up one entire mob for the first two or three turns of the game. Run your speeders up and down the flank and pick off vulnerable units. Take those Razorbacks and Preds and drive hard down one flank to get into position. Let one of your combat squads in a razorback screen for your assault squad, get your licks in with the preds and tacticals as the orks close, take your casualties when they charge the combat squad, then either Combat Tactics them out or let them get eaten up by the orks, pour return fire into the mob from the majority of your army, then finish them off with the Chaplain + Assault squad.

 

Orks tend to have a lot of models but few units. If you tie one of them up for one or more turns, you've essentially blunted a significant portion of his army while you kill another significant portion of it.

[Cadarn]

Popper, looking at that Ork list, I'm not sure why you have the Las Cannons in your Tactical squads. The only armour is in the Deffcopter, which does not require a las cannon to kill. You have a Las Cannon and an Auto Cannon on your Preds, they should be enough to deal with any random pieces of armour he may throw in, such as Dreds or Trucks.

 

I'd suggest dropping the las cannons and opting for either Missile Launchers or Heavy Bolters. They are both far more effective against hordes, and will also help against the armour/ high toughness opponents.

 

I'd also suggest swapping the extra heavy bolters on the Land Speeders for Heavy Flamers. Don't think of them as assault units. Keep them hidden and use them as counter assault units, BEFORE the charge happens. Pepper them with the heavy bolters from a distance. The trick would be to allow the hordes to close on your Tactical squads, which he will want to kill as your only scoring units, and then manage the distance so that before he has the chance to charge, you can advance and unleash rapid fire death. Then have your land speeders (each one as a seperate unit) come in real close and unleash the heavy flamer and the heavy bolter. By the time they reach you the ranks should have been thinned somewhat by your long range weapons, so this should be a way of either finishing off the remainder or thinning them further to allow a counter assault by the assault troops. If not, you may be able to place your Land Speeders between your Tac squads and the Boyz, meaning they would have to assault the land speeder before the tactical squad. If he has a Nob with either a Klaw or a Uge choppa then you can kiss it goodbye, but rather the land speeder than the scoring tactical squad.

 

This tactic pretty much counts for Orks and 'Nids. Remember that, on the charge, a basic ten man assault squad should be able to beat a basic 30 strong Ork or Nid unit. Especially Orks, as they have lower Initiative than marines. The same applies for a 5 man assault unit against a 15 strong horde enemy. While you won't outnumber them, the big difference under 5th ed rules is that it is the difference in wounds scored which affects leadership scores, not how much theyoutnumber you. If you can half their unit strength by the time they reach you, rapid fire + heavy flamer + counter assault by five-man combat squaded assault troops shoud finish them off. This is especially important for Orks, as Nids will often be affected by synapse rules.

 

Some key facts to remember against orks and Nids.

-They WILL reach your lines.

-It is far better to assault than be assaulted. While you may not wish to get into combat, odds are that it will happen eventually, and it is far better that you get the charge bonus rather than them.

-Marines have very strong (if very expensive) assault troops. They are also very mobile. Use this to your advantage.

 

Oh, and the max for a Kommandos unit is 15, so either the number is wrong or your opponent need to check his Codex. ;)

 

I'm soon going to be playing in a campaign against Orks, Nids and Infantry heavy guard. My plan is to run my force in small battle groups

 

Group

-Ten man tactical sqaud with ML, Flamer and Rhino

-Land Speeder with Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer

-Five man assault squad with heavy flamer

 

Two of these plus some heavy support. Let them come to me, thinning the numbers as they do, and then seal the deal up close and personal.

 

It's worked for me before, and if it doesn't work for this then I'm opting for option 2, which is to cry in the corner while the gribblies feast on the Emperor's finest.

 

Both plans have their merits. :lol:

[popper]

its a campaign army, cant change composition between fights. and the other players are SM, DA, guard, tau, tau, tyranid and daemons. So i couldn't just build an army that was good against a horde ork army.

 

about the kommandos, that may be right. but in the sea of 30 model units, it just looked like 20.

[Cadarn]

Ah. Makes more sense. In which case it looks like good rounded list. ^_^