..not your 40K.....

[Skyzerker]

Ha I love the picture. Its heresy. I have to agree brotherAkkyshan I think that the blood angels are more of a parable to Worldeaters, than Emperors Children.

 

But with the Heresy unfolding differently, Sanguinius wouldn't get killed by Horus. The black rage would never manifest, and the BA would remain as they always had been. The EC on the other hand would have a complete nervous breakdown when Fulgrim is choked out by Guilleman...

[Mertio23]

But with the Heresy unfolding differently, Sanguinius wouldn't get killed by Horus. The black rage would never manifest, and the BA would remain as they always had been. The EC on the other hand would have a complete nervous breakdown when Fulgrim is choked out by Guilleman...

 

This is a very good point. The Blood Angels more "artistic" side, and general perfectionism in all their pursuits, war and otherwise, would come to the fore and then lead them to Slaanesh. Besides, the pretty boys always fall for Slaanesh...

[DavidKits]

hmmm never thought people would be saying one way or the other on my post oh well *shrugs* as i said i don't totally remember why i switched blood angels wih emperors children. but in the end, i would like to see more of these alternate universe crossovers. i know of a person here who did a complete heresy ultramarines as was put up before. and one person who did a chaos form idea of blood angels but i like to see more... hmm maybe i should work on some and see how they turn out.

[Zopha]

If Lorgar's worship was accepted by the emperor which of the "loyalist" primarchs would kick the whole lot off? :D

[Skyzerker]

I think DavidKits had it right with his post, but maybe for different reasons. Salamanders would definately replace the Word Bearers as the "fanatic" traitor legion. The strong fire motif, along with the Promethian cult (emphasis on "cult"), makes them the perfect candidates. I'm sure their relationships with civilian sects would also come into play, allowing the Sallies to recruit massed numbers of cultists.

[Duodecimo]

The Council of Nikaea could have been Ferrus on trial for the use of xeno technology. When he used it anyway to warn the emperor despite the verdict of the Council, the emperor sent the World Eaters to attack Medusa, the Iron Hands fell to Chaos.

Here's my breakdown:

Blood Angels - Emperor's Children

Ultramarines - Black Legion

Space Wolves - World Eaters

Dark Angels - Word Bearers

Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors

Salamanders - Death Guard

Raven Guard - Night Lords

White Scars - Alpha Legion

Iron Hands - Thousand Sons

This should also probably be moved to the Chaos Ascendant section. Moderator?

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Great. Between this and the Loyalists===>Traitors thread, I've been struck by lady muse and have a test to go to instead.

 

I'll compile my ideas and throw my input over there in a few days.

[MithrilForge]

I really like this idea! Though I can see why you paired off the Blood Angels and the Emperor's Children (i'm assuming you were considering their "artistic" sides!) I think an alternative World Eaters chapter would have more in common with them. At the moment you have the Angels afflicted with the "black rage", but I can see a loyalist World Eaters chapter suffering with something similar. After thousands of years of continued augmented implants, their gene-seed would now be reaching the point where it was genetically dependent on the implants. Their techmarines would be furiously searching for a way to use the gene-seed without need for implants (like the Blood Angels looking for a cure for the black rage). They could even have their own Death Comapny, veteran marines whose implants have degenerated, effectively driving them mad with rage!

 

What does everyone else think? I'm starting to like this idea more and more... I can see a (small) army being put together! Loyalist World Eaters using Blood Angels Codex rules? Hmmm...

 

i would be more inclined to follow this path above ^_^ loyalist world eaters using blood angels rules....although i can see the rational of world eaters and space wolves doing a cross over as well ^_^ this could be called a "What if Army" Hmmm world eaters pre heresy colors

...i really shouldn't have looked at this thread oh no ! :P must stop looking!

 

Mithril

[Cheex]

I believe somebody did a whole army of dark ultras a while ago on here.

 

I've been searching it for hours, though unable to find it so

 

I WOULD KILL FOR A LINK TO THAT!!

 

Like this one?

[brotherAkkyshan]

Graet minds think alike mithrilforge! ^_^

 

I too am tempted by doing a "what if..." World Earters. Basically pre-heresy uniforms, Blood Angels rules.

 

Would anyone here not play against a "Infinities" style force?

[Commissar Molotov]

EDITED

[cervantes3773]

Man, Molotov, that's some good stuff you posted.

 

drkwalker, could you draw us a more noble, but no less devious, Alpharius? Perhaps a necrotic Vulkan or magical Ferrus Manus? I really want to see more of your work!

[AbyssKnight]

My take on this, with short explanations.

 

Blood Angels - Emperor's Children - both are artistic/perfectionist, the "beautiful" legions

Ultramarines - Black Legion - again, a good match, both are the "default" or "generic" legions

Space Wolves - World Eaters - good, both more wild, uncontrolled legions that excell at CC

Dark Angels - Word Bearers - secret rites of the knightly Order similar to the rites of religion

Imperial Fists - Death Guard - both legions noted for stubborness/stoicism

Iron Hands - Iron Warriors - very similar legions with very similar themes

Raven Guard - Alpha Legion - stealthy legions using more unconventional warfare

White Scars - Night Lords - mobility based combat, White Scars are more savage than Raven Guard

Salamanders - Thousand Sons - Tzentch is god of magic and fire, Salamanders cult could be similar secret to T Sons sorcery, though Salamanders would make good Word Bearers analog too

[cathar the great]

@molotov: reads like you had a lot of fun discussing this stuff, you're really fking my mind with this, I want to make all the loyalist legions at once as armies and ideas for about 20 fanfics jump to my mind.

 

so much ideas and so little time

[Ein Windir]

My take on this, with short explanations.

 

Blood Angels - Emperor's Children - both are artistic/perfectionist, the "beautiful" legions

Ultramarines - Black Legion - again, a good match, both are the "default" or "generic" legions

Space Wolves - World Eaters - good, both more wild, uncontrolled legions that excell at CC

Dark Angels - Word Bearers - secret rites of the knightly Order similar to the rites of religion

Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors - both legion are masters of defense and seige work

Iron Hands - Death Guard - both legions noted for stubborness/stoicism

Raven Guard - Alpha Legion - stealthy legions using more unconventional warfare

White Scars - Night Lords - mobility based combat, White Scars are more savage than Raven Guard

Salamanders - Thousand Sons - Tzentch is god of magic and fire, Salamanders cult could be similar secret to T Sons sorcery, though Salamanders would make good Word Bearers analog too

 

Very good list, but I made a small change to your list. I hope you don't mind :D .

[Commissar Molotov]

@molotov: reads like you had a lot of fun discussing this stuff, you're really fking my mind with this, I want to make all the loyalist legions at once as armies and ideas for about 20 fanfics jump to my mind.

 

so much ideas and so little time

 

 

Glad to hear it! It's definitely something I'd like to develop one day. I think with the multiplicity of possibilities, you can go anywhere with "alternate heresies". I look forward to reading what you get up to - be sure to let me know how you get on!

[Skyzerker]

I think with the multiplicity of possibilities, you can go anywhere with "alternate heresies".

 

There's some great possibilities for "new" characters in there, too. "Bjorn the Betrayer" and "Khârn the Fell-handed" are the first that spring to mind, but no need to stop with the Heresy! Imagine Sebastian Thor's "reign of blood", only brought to an end by the incredibly pious missionary Vandire...

[MithrilForge]

After great thought and rereading of the posts i have come to the conclusion that a

Post Heresy "what if" army of world eaters using Space wolf rules is a must do idea !

of course i would use the pre heresy colors of the world eaters(way too cool not to use)

problem is when is the next edition of the space pups being released???

and fluff wise i think i would have to recruit "Commissar Molotov" to the project :lol:

 

Mithril

[Octavulg]

It is the Golden Age of the Imperium. The Primarchs walk among men, and the Emperor among the Primarchs. Horus, first among the Emperor's sons, is Warmaster. In the Galactic North, he leads the forces of the Emperor against the foul forces of the aliens and those who do not except the Imperium's light.

 

These are the soldiers of the Emperor.

 

First among his sons is Horus, Warmaster, the Emperor's chosen son. Horus leads, and the other Primarchs follow. Horus leads the war in the south-east of the Imperium, fighting against the horrific aliens of the Eastern Fringe. Constant companions to the Warmaster are Mortarion and Alpharius, who lead where the Warmaster follows.

 

The Primarch Angron leads his World Eaters as the vanguard of the Warmaster's assault force. Foremost among his troops are his one thousand former gladiators, plucked from certain death by the Emperor to fight at the side of his son.

 

Konrad Curze, master of terror and subtlety, whose rule over Nostromo taught the Imperium the meaning of fear. Brought to account by the Emperor for his excesses, Curze saw the error of his ways after Dorn confronted him for what Dorn perceived as his failings. Though the two Primarchs came to blows, Curze's brother Primarchs discovered them and prevented their hurting each other further. Dorn demanded Curze be called to account for such actions, but his brother Primarchs sided with Curze. Dorn withdrew in anger, and Curze returned to Nostromo, to remake it as he would have it. All those who had oppressed or committed crimes were gathered together, and slain, their bodies used to feed pyres atop massive towers in Nostromo. Through these pyres, and later through reactors provided by the Mechanicus, Curze brought light to Nostromo - which he renamed Lux Imperius.

 

Meanwhile, Rogal Dorn withdrew into himself, wondering how he had failed the Emperor that his brother Primarchs might turn against him so. In an effort to atone, he asked the Emperor permission to lead a group of legions in a campaign in the north of the galaxy. The Emperor agreed, and Dorn now leads the Space Wolves, the Salamanders and the Iron Hands against the enemies of the Imperium in the north of the Emperor's realm.

 

Guilleman is one of the greatest Primarchs. His legion alone destroyed the Laer, which Guilleman has taken as proof of the correctness of his doctrines on combat. He leads the Ultramarines in the south of the Imperium, wielding the mighty blade taken from the Laeran capital after the aliens' defeat.

 

Jaghatai Khan is no longer the barbarian prince he once was. After his defeat of his home Palatinate, he and his soon adopted the ways of the conquered - including the dark religion. Though it was only a slight darkness, it will be enough to damn him.

 

Corax of the Raven Guard is the proud son of prison overseers, from whom he learned the ways of oppression and cruelty. Many times the Emperor has wondered if he should call his son to account - but his methods are undeniably effective.

 

Magnus the Red is the Emperor's protege and student, helping his father with the great magicks and projects for which only his gifts can serve. His Thousand Sons serve often as the Emperor's bodyguard, and also often serve to seek out new knowledge and items for the Emperor's projects.

 

How the Heresy Happens:

Dorn's use of the Pain Glove grows more and more pronounced, until he spends three weeks in it after a battle on Davin. He is so weak he is beyond Imperial science, and his desperate subordinates accept a Davinite offer to heal the Primarch. Dorn's resentment of other Primarchs is twisted into worship and glorification of Chaos. He believes the Emperor has been lead astray, and that Chaos is the destiny of humanity. The once orderly ranks of the Imperial Fists swiftly degenerate into chaos and anarchy, with Dorn as its lord. The Space Wolves succumbed to Slaanesh's debauchery and decadence, the promise of plunder and battle being too much for their warrior spirits to resist. Meanwhile, the Iron Hands clanlike structures had also been corrupted by those same warrior cults. Soon, mutation ran rampant throughout the legion - Tzeentch had chosen the Iron Hands for his own. Many Iron Hands began cutting away any sign of mutation, and soon all that remained of the once proud warriors were twisted minds in metal bodies. Others, however, embraced their new twisted forms, soon to become shambling Chaos Spawn.

 

At Isstvan III, Dorn destroyed the loyalist troops remaining within the ranks of his legions. A small contingent of loyal marines, lead by the young Bjorn the Fell-Handed, fled for Terra to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery. The treachery of Dorn's forces was reported - but the young Space Wolf did not realize that the Salamanders had no knowledge of Dorn's treachery. The Emperor dispatched his Blood Angels to destroy the heretic Salamanders.

 

The Salamanders, horrified by this turn of events, fled for their home world of Nocturne, to marshal their forces and move to Terra and warn the Emperor. They were met there by the Blood Angels, who quickly landed and began to slaughter the population in an orgy of bloodshed. Each of his people who fell pushed the stolid Vulkan closer to the brink, and eventually his control snapped. He called upon the power of Chaos, and the lord of disease and death answered. The Blood Angels began to choke on the blood as they drank it, and the fallen people of Nocturne rose once more as Plague Zombies. The mad Vulkan was now the Lord of Death and Despair, lost to insanity and Chaos. He drove the Blood Angels from his world, then left to join the forces of Dorn. Meanwhile, the Blood Angels retreated, licking their wounds, and began to rampage wildly through the Imperium, now wholly lost to the God of Blood. Their unhealthy fascination with the sanguine had lead them to the darkness of Chaos.

 

Shocked by this turn of events, the Emperor dispatched all the forces he had available, in the hopes he could crush the rebellion with sheer force. Horus remained in the South, so Guilleman, the conqueror of the Laer, was given command of the troops. Under him were the White Scars, the Raven Guard, the better part of the Dark Angels legion, under the command of Lord Commander Luther, the Raven Guard, the Iron Warriors, the Night Lords and the Emperor's Children. The first wave of assault troops included the Dark Angels, the Iron Warriors, the Night Lords and the Emperor's Children. However, the remaining forces were corrupt servants of Chaos, Lords Jaghatai and Corax having served the Dark Powers for long years before their discovery by the Emperor, and Guilleman having been corrupted by a daemon weapon of the Laer. Those three legions, combined with the traitor forces of Dorn, soon destroyed the loyalist forces, with only a small group escaping. Konrad Curze was slain, leading his personal bodyguard in a defense of the evacuating dropships. The other Primarchs escaped, and fled with the remains of their legions. The rebel forces united, and moved toward Terra. The Blood Angels continued to rampage throughout the Imperium. Eventually, their rampages brought them to Prospero.

 

Magnus had only recently returned from helping the Emperor construct the Imperial Webway. Though his men fought valiantly, they were no match for the ferocity of the Blood Angels. Desperation finally drove Magnus to use his psychic powers to open a path into the Imperial Webway - and to draw Prospero inside it. The Blood Angels on the planet were drawn in with the planet, but the enemy fleet lost their prey. On his flagship, the crazed Primarch Sanguinius howled as his prey escaped. Magnus, meanwhile, lead his forces from Prospero through the paths of the Webway, to the heart of the Imperial palace.

 

Guilleman, meanwhile, had different ideas from the other rebels. Neither the daemon within him nor Guilleman himself were eager to follow Dorn, and the Ultramarines legion moved toward the Galactic South, where Horus and his forces waited. The Emperor contacted Horus and his forces to warn them, and the Warmaster's forces began moving back to Terra. Alpharius' forces moved to engage the Ultramarines, the young Primarch's pride forcing him into a confrontation with his enemy.

 

The Dark Angels returned home, only to have Jonson blame Luther for the calamity at Isstvan IV. Jonson's great pride had been subtly fed and twisted by the Chaos Gods, and the Primarch struck his brother Luther. Many of the marines had been trained by the Commander, and many others remembered him from their time in the order. Soon, the Dark Angels were at each others throats. The battle raged for days.

 

Only the World Eaters, the Thousand Sons and the Word Bearers remained to defend Terra from the forces of Chaos.

 

Soon, Terra was besieged. Only the ferocity of the World Eaters, the faith of the Word Bearers, and the personal feats of both Lorgar and Angron kept the Palace from falling. Angron's personal defeat of a Slaaneshi Greater Daemon at the Eternity Gate is recorded in mosaic in the Hall of Heroes, and has become legend throughout the Imperium. Meanwhile, in the south, the Ultramarines were defeated by a combination of numbers and Alpharius' subtle tactics. The Warmaster's forces broke through the rebel blockade, and moved toward Terra.

 

Sensing his through his warp-given powers that relief for Terra was nigh, Dorn lowered the shields on his battle barge. Magnus, finally recovered, sensed his and teleported himself, the Emperor, Angron and Lorgar aboard Dorn's ship. Seperated and confused, Angron was the first to come upon Dorn. Though he fought the traitor leader well, he was defeated by Dorn's incredible tenacity and Chaos-given strength. Angron fell, broken, finally defeated. But next to meet Dorn was the Emperor. The Emperor finally realized the depths to which his once-most-loyal son had fallen, and his heart hardened. The Emperor and Dorn fought each other for hours, sword against sword, power fist against power fist. Finally, both struck each other a mortal blow, and each fell. Crying out in anguish, the Chaos Gods left the body of Dorn, and as they did so, the forces of Horus slipped forth from the Warp. The Siege of Terra was over, and the Chaos forces fled in disarray.

 

* * *

 

Author's Note: I just hammered this up now, so it's likely rife with errors. Forgive them. Also, I tend to mash together old stuff and new stuff, trying to avoid the stupider of the new stuff. Anyway, there you see my ideas for how the heresy would unfold differently. As you can see, not that much needs to change.

 

EDIT: Oh, Lorgar would be told by the Emperor about Chaos, and have it explained to him that the only objects truly worthy of worship was the ideal of humanity itself. Lorgar would get this. If Lorgar did not get this, Lorgar would damn well die in a suspicious accident.

[JEFF4i]

My question, why would the Space Wolves fall?

 

Leman was devoutly loyal, without being dogmatic, and he pretty much hated all things Warp.

[MithrilForge]

My question, why would the Space Wolves fall?

 

Leman was devoutly loyal, without being dogmatic, and he pretty much hated all things Warp.

 

Well this is just a "What if" topic(not GW canon) so some reason could be thought up quite easily i think :P although i would honestly think that Leman Russ would fall to Khorne...not pansy Slaneesh,

i know this is "what if" but some semblance of logic needs to stay :P

 

Mithril

[Octavulg]

The same reason Horus falls - corruption by the Warrior Cults of Davin. He gets inducted, and the rituals inherently corrupt him. Frankly, I'd assume the warrior lodges of Davin'd be more corrupting to Russ than they were to, say, Fulgrim - and that was the sole explanation for Fulgrim's fall for years.

 

Slaanesh likes plundering and partying as well as battle - which makes me think more of Russ than anyone else. The BA and the SW could both fall to Khorne or to Slaanesh, and the method I propose makes more sense to me - Blood Angels for the Blood God, if you will.

[JEFF4i]

I don't know. Though many think of us as barbaric, the Wolves are driven, as much as anything, by honor. Just don't see it happening.

 

That said, I still really like what this thread is trying to do. :P

[Octavulg]

All the Primarchs were driven to honor (at least to some extent). So really, that's not much of an argument against it.

[OnlyInDeath]

The thing is, russ is driven by a measure of pride. Pride is something that has always been used by chaos to turn men against the imperium. You could just make something about, since the emperor sided with magnus and thought that psychic mastery was the way of the imperium, russ grew distrustful of the imperium as a whole. You could also maintain the story of the fallout between russ and the lion, but this grew to such a deep resentment and grudge harboring that russ would instead turn it all internal and indulge in the excesses of flesh as only slannesh could provide (see my earlier post about wolves turning to slannesh). I think russ turning in the "bizzaro 40k" is very believable. Only the strongest devotion could turn into the strongest corruption. I think personally Russ would be one of the most mighty champions of chaos, as he in the end is on of the imperiums last hopes and most devoted primarchs...just in his own way...